alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial trinidad/torium dog spring upgrade
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
October 22, 2019, 12:31:44 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: trinidad/torium dog spring upgrade  (Read 125327 times)
0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« on: August 22, 2009, 08:12:32 PM »

my complaint about the shimano trinidad and torium reels has always been the drag system and the anti-reverse system.  well, the carbontex drag washers from smoothdrag.com and cal's grease totally fixed the drag problem.  the anti-reverse roller bearing and ambassaduer-style pawl (dog), however, still posed a risk of failure and personal injury.  if i was going to fix that, i would use a stack of two anti-reverse roller bearings in line and add a spring for the pawl.  well, i actually found that in a shimano reel.  this is a little embarassing, but i never had a clue.  the guys on bloody decks had mention this before, but i guess i must be working on the poor side of town.  the incredibly expensive shimano trinidad 20 DC had never crossed my bench until recently.  look what i found!



that's right, the shimano trinidad 20 DC has greased carbon fiber drag washers.  but there's more.  it also has a spring loaded pawl.  



and finally, it has a double height anti-reverse roller bearing and inner tube!



well, with this inspiration (and a dog send to me by a guy on bloodydecks!), i finally decided to try in on a torium.  here is the trinidad dc pawl spring.



here is the ambassaduer-style pawl that comes stock with the torium (and the standard trinidads).



you can see already how the pawl is damaged.  the anti-reverse roller bearing in this reel is totally shot, so the pawl is doing all of the work.  



the ambassaduer-style spring actually peels off fairly easily.  then you can use a standard mill bastard file to clean up all of the burrs.





lay the spring flat.



now here's the tricky part.  there is a little bit of a gap underneath the pawl that allows your new dog spring to get stuck.  to avoid this, i added a shimano washer that i pulled out of my junk box and used this washer to shim the pawl.  now the spring will not get stuck.



ok, now this washer is critical.  without it, the pawl spring gets caught underneath the pawl and the pawl gets jammed in the "up and away" position.  that means it won't work at all.  i THINK that this washer is from the shimano tld 15.  it should be spacer A, part #TLD 0047.  i have to check the next TLD that comes in to make sure.  i did not think to use the trinidad dc pawl that i already had. i will have to try that on the next reel.




install the pawl.



install the anti-reverse pawl keeper.



install the anti-reverse ratchet and your new spring loaded dog system is complete!



so there you have it, your clicking torium. the trinidad DC pawl and pawl spring is a drop in fix for the regular Trinidads and Toriums. part #s 1304 spring, and 1303 pawl.  no washer is required. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 09:14:56 AM by alantani » Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 11:18:56 AM »

Quote
Hi Alan, thank you for all your usefull information, the torium has been known to have some anti reverse problems, and you have said yourself that the dog style is the weak point of the reel... i saw the post of the modification to the reverse pawl, its now spring loaded, will this sort out the anti reverse issue? is it now more reliable? another question is the pawl not going to wear now that it is slapping or bouncing on the reverse teeth? or are the teeth going to wear? are they both strong enough to handle this upgrade? thanks for all your helpfull tips,

with all the banging around, there is a possibility that the wear on the dog may actually be less.  with the ambassaduer style springs. the ratchet gear has to "back up" before it comes in contact with dog.  with the spring, the "back up" distance may be a little less.  it might result in less damage to the dog.  who knows.  either way, it's gotta be better than what we've got now!!!!!!!!!!!

Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 08:01:15 PM »

the trinidad DC pawl and pawl spring is a drop in fix for the regular Trinidads and Toriums. part #s 1304 spring, and 1303 pawl.
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 01:48:46 PM »

http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/fishing-reels/238275-trinidad-problem.html

Quote from: FlyinFishOTI;1828128
Not a big deal...


 
The pawl basically gets mashed down slightly by the one way gear (that sits under the main shaft) and basically doesn't catch anymore.
 
For 180 bucks (Torium), use it til you lose it and then just drop it off at Shimano in Irvine on the drive from SD to LA and they'll ship it back to you pretty quick all fixed up.
 
Or try a Saltist, but I think my TOs/TNs crank better and have better drag...
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 09:57:59 AM »

Hi Alan,

Hope you are well. Just a quick update on clicking Toriums. I placed the the drag clickspring behind the anti-reverse pawl on my toriums in a similar fashion to your plan of fitting the Trini DC pawl. Well after a couple of months it seems like the anti-reverse gear is eating away at the pawl. It is not the usual damage that occurs when the anti-reverse bearing fails, you can see the gear slowly rubbing a groove in the pawl. Obviously the standard Torium/Trini pawl is not hard enough to handle the constant friction of the anti-reverse gear. You sometimes wonder what they were thinking when designing this system. On the older reels it was such a simple, robust system that hardly ever gave trouble. Just the whole design on it is so bad, the pawl and gear design are just bad, it never engages snugly, spring or no spring.

Hopefully they have sorted this on the new Trini A. I see the drags are now "Dartanium II" aka woven carbonfibre. Not that I will purchase one in the near future, they are a bit pricey.

Regards,
Leon
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
kitebuz
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 07:59:12 AM »

Alan - do you know how much drag a Torium 20 will put out w/ this upgrade?  I bought a used T-20, which had recently been sent to you for servicing.  It has your upgraded handle, but I have not yet opened it up to see if he had you do the drag/AR updgrade as well.  Thanks.
Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 08:25:49 AM »

a set of carbontex drag washers can be cranked down enough to give an easy 20 pounds of drag.    if you keep on cranking, you can strip the threads of the star and drive shaft, and even damage the anti-reverse roller bearing.  as far as the roller bearing itself goes, i would have stayed with the stock AR bearing.  a taller one is not really an option.  and it the reel "clicks," then it has a spring loaded dog.  i hope the reel serves you well.  alan
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
kitebuz
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 01:18:36 PM »

Thank you, Alan.  I have not fished it enough is the only problem so far  Cry  I really like the handle on it though, and will check for clicking.
Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 01:28:31 PM »

there is a problem with the reel?
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
Cast-Away
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 07:02:38 PM »

I have two Torium 30's that I have owned for about 5 years.  When they were new Shimano sent me replacement dogs and something else, I think the ratchet gear but I can't remember.  I have not had any trouble with the reels but I did notice one of the dogs was worn this year so I replaced it but I have a question about your comment above:

"you can see already how the pawl is damaged.  the anti-reverse roller bearing in this reel is totally shot, so the pawl is doing all of the work."  

Does this mean my anti-reverse bearing is starting to go or already gone?  Is there any way to test the AR bearing or do I just have to wait for bloody knuckles?  It sounded like you said the Trinidad DC's double height tube and roller bearing would fit in the Torium but it's not clear from this post whether you tried it.  If I need to replace my existing anti-reverse bearing anyway, should I use the one from teh Trinidad DC?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 07:09:28 PM by Cast-Away » Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 07:42:10 PM »

get the dog and spring set from shimano (877-577-0600) and don't worry about the AR bearing.  if they are out, let me know.   Undecided
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
Brendan
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 258


Capistrano Beach, CA


« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2011, 07:53:58 PM »

I performed the upgrade - the washer, and my local shop did not mention the extended sleeve and roller bearing. I am not sure if I need the washer, but would like to know more about the sleeve and roller bearing upgrade.
Thank You for any advice, my friend is using this reel for chasing the great white SB and I know he overextends the reel.
Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17740



« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2011, 12:17:18 AM »

i never looked into the taller AR bearing and sleeve any further.  the spring loaded dog basically took care of the problem.  alan
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
Brendan
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 258


Capistrano Beach, CA


« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 04:37:07 AM »

Thanks Alan, just wanted to be sure I got it right. I don't want a failure when I'm on the boat.
Thanks again, Brendan.
Logged
kimbo
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 11:27:34 AM »

I'm wondering how often this problem happens. I fish the heck out of my toriums, and have never had this problem. I replaced the pawl once on my 20 because it was showing some wear, but never on my 16 or 14. Do you think the failure happens from lack of maintanance or just a random part failure. Do you think the DC upgarde is actuallty a stronger part? Seems like just putting in a fresh pawl would do the same.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 12:40:07 PM by alantani » Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.209 seconds with 16 queries.