UPGRADING A PENN 49

Started by Alto Mare, January 13, 2013, 05:17:52 AM

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trond_solem

Are you saying that a gear sleeve from a 113H will fit on the 49 bridge or did I miss something here?

Alto Mare

No, I believe Lee (Keta) was talking about the 349. The 49 has the same gear sleevce as a Jigmaster, that was the main reason I started this thread.
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

trond_solem

Ok. I am starting to get a grip on it.
I have found a 349 bridge with gear sleeve, star drag and washers, but what I don't know is what metal drag washers will fits inside the 49 main gear. (stainless)
The 349 and 113h  steel washers will fit perfectly on the new 349 sleeve, but will they fit inside the main gear from the 49 reel?
The eared metal washer from the 49 drag set can be drilled to fit, but the keyed washers with semi-square hole cannot be drilled. I may use a file and some elbow grease to make them fit, but finding a washer or two that fits right away is much better.
Anyone who can shed some light on this?

George4741

Quote from: trond_solem on October 27, 2014, 11:34:41 PM

The 349 and 113h  steel washers will fit perfectly on the new 349 sleeve, but will they fit inside the main gear from the 49 reel?

Yes, the keyed 113H washers have a smaller diameter but will work.  If I remember right, the 349H washers are also slightly smaller than the 49 washers.  If not, you can reduce the diameter in a lathe.  I don't know of any other keyed washers that will fit the 349 sleeve.
viurem lliures o morirem

Keta

The ID of 349 washers is larger than the ID of 49 washers.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

trond_solem

Yes, that's the point.
They will fit perfectly on the 349 sleeve.

trond_solem

A complete list of ID, OD and thickness of the different steel drag washers for all the Penn reels compiled into a table would be just great!
Add information about ID, OD and thickness of the carbon fibre drag washers too and we can just look up in the table to find what to use where.
In a couple of weeks I can supply data for 49, 112H, 113H, 114H and partly at least for 349.

Who wants to build the table and publish it as a PDF?

Keta

Quote from: trond_solem on October 29, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
Yes, that's the point.
They will fit perfectly on the 349 sleeve.

Proper washers with a 49 OD and 349 ID can be cut.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

trond_solem

Yes, they can, but I have got some info that says the I can use #113H keyed washers and #49 eared washers. Just open up the ID of the eared washers to fit over the #349 sleeve.
That will probably be a viable solution. From what I have found by searching the board, the #349 (not H) washers are just a tad smaller than the #49 washers. 1.105" for the #349 washers and 1.119" for the #49 washers. The big question is: Where do I find #349 washers? Most of the reels sold are #349H or #349HS.

BTW, I have started collecting washer dimensons, but I will need input from you out there to compile a more or less complete table.

Keta

#54
I might still have some thin (.035" and .045") 349 drag washer sets but it would be better to draw up and have a few sets cut for the 49/349 modification.  How many here would be interested in a set?  I can take my 49 apart and draw up the washers if there is any interest.  I prefer my keyed drag washer OD to be closer to the gear ID, as long as they do not touch.

The "H" and "HS" use the same drag washers.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

George4741

For reference, 113H washers are 1.055" diameter and 349H are 1.230" dia.
viurem lliures o morirem

trond_solem

Yes, and the 349 (non-h) washers are 1.105  OD, and that is just 0.014 less than the 49 washers and a better fit.

trond_solem

Just finished the 49 to 349 upgrade.
Drilled out the steel gear, drag washers and eared washer to the correct dimension. Had only 349H keyed brass washers so I had to file them done to the correct size. Took some time and elbow grease, but in the end, they fit perfectly.
How on earth it is possible to fit the 349 bridge into the 49 sideplate without altering the screw holes are beyond my imagination. I had to elongate the holes in the side plate and install locating pins through the bridge and into the side plate to make the bridge sit in the correct position. I drilled a couple of 1.5mm holes through the bridge and about 5mm into the bakelite side plate. Then I cut two 10mm long pieces from an 1.5mm unbraco key. It will fit thight in those holes. I files the upper end of them a bit thinner and glued them into the side plate with superglue.
I opened up the hole for the crank and the drag washer so that the chromed thick outer 349 washer sits nicely in the hole. At the moment I use a brass sleeve between this washer and the drag star. I have to find a better fitting stainless sleeve somewhere.
Anyway, it is working with a lot of drag available. I set the drag star to max and held the spool with my left hand. It was close to impossible to rotate the crank even if I used almost all the force I could use on it. No gear slippage, no cracking sounds. I loosened up the drag and could turn the crank using a firm, even force. I haven't tested with line yet, but with carbontex drag washers and all the metal washers trued up during the process, I can't imagine the drag to be jerky.

This isn't a job for the faint harted. It requires extensive modification of the side plate and internals. You'd better know what you are doing before starting on this kind of job.


Alto Mare

#58
Quote from: trond_solem on November 06, 2014, 05:34:27 PM
Just finished the 49 to 349 upgrade.
.
How on earth it is possible to fit the 349 bridge into the 49 sideplate without altering the screw holes are beyond my imagination.
Just look above, its right there in black and white.
I'm glad you gave it a shot, just don't discourage anyone else about doing this modification, if me and you can do it so can they. This isn't really a big deal, I actually think its a cool modification. There was no need to alter the plate on mine, just set the bridge screws a little at a time and they will fit with no issues.
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

trond_solem

Quote from: Alto Mare on November 06, 2014, 06:12:42 PM
Quote from: trond_solem on November 06, 2014, 05:34:27 PM
Just finished the 49 to 349 upgrade.
.
How on earth it is possible to fit the 349 bridge into the 49 sideplate without altering the screw holes are beyond my imagination.
Just look above, its right there in black and white.
I'm glad you gave it a shot, just don't discourage anyone else about doing this modification, if me and you can do it so can they. This isn't really a big deal, I actually think its a cool modification. There was no need to alter the plate on mine, just set the bridge screws a little at a time and they will fit with no issues.
Sal

I tried that, but I couldn't get more than two screws to enter. Just making the holes wider made me able to get all the screws to enter, but they couldn't be tightened. If I tried that, the bridge was pushed against the edge of the plate and the main gear was locked against the outer edge of the plate.
I think there must be two versions of either the 49 reel or the 349 bridge.
Anyway, positioning it where it has to be and installing locating pins solved the problem. If you do that, you can enlarge the holes in the plate enough to get the screws to fit without any big problems. If I had done that in the first place, it would have saved me a lot of work and tinkering.