Fin Nor LT 100 rated well by Alan Hawk. Ok, its a spinner.

[erikpowell]

I know we're talking spinners here, but I couldn't resist .

Here's an interesting comment from Alan that bears right on one of our favorite subjects here.. Stainless Steel gears..

"The pinion shows no noticeable wear, thanks to the lower coefficient of friction between the brass drive gear and the pinion. Gear trains that are made of two stainless steel gears are not always the best option as many would think. A combination of a stainless pinion and a drive gear properly made of quality brass/bronze alloy would generally last longer and suffer less galling.
This is why the indestructible gearing of the Saltiga comprises a stainless pinion and a C6191 marine bronze drive gear instead of an all stainless steel gearing. The gearing of the Lethal 100 is my top favourite feature in this reel." quote

I'm not sure if AlanHAwks a member here, but either way THANK YOU Alan..your reviews are most excellent!

[Reinaard van der Vossen]

Erik,  it depends very much on the details what is better. As a rule I would tend to say SS all the way but sometimes they are less   smooth (unless very carefully cut and honed. It Al depends on the application and execution.

I like both Alan's for what they do. And sometimes, when appropriate, I can do something back and share

[Three se7ens]

As a rule, stainless is good for one thing, and that's resisting corrosion.  There are compromises in all alloys, and stainless steels. To gain corrosion resistance, strength is often sacrificed.  Few stainless alloys are especially hard, and the ones that are don't have the corrosion resistance.  This is especially true in gears.  17-4 ph is pretty common as a gear material in high end materials, but it's quite expensive, and it slightly less corrosion resistant than 304, and a far cry from 316 in saltwater environments. But it's quite hard, and 5/6 times stronger the 304/316. 

Stainless can be made smooth as butter, but at a higher machining and finishing cost than other alloys.  Case in point, Alan Hawks best spinning reels in the world.  4 of the 5 have a stainless pinion(hardened, so it's a 400 series or a PH stainless), and a main gear that is some form of bronze or brass.  Only one has stainless on stainless.

[Tightlines667]

I've noticed this pattern too.  This brought me to the question regarding assesment of gear wear in heavily used reels and making the determination on when and what to replace.  I've often heard that gear sets should be replaced as complete sets, but I've often noticed wear patterns can be markedly different on different gears within a set, attributed to manufacturing related (type of materials, tollerances, quality, number a config of teeth, etc), and usage patterns (more general use in high speed, higher forces applied in low gear, etc).  Replacing entire gear sets is often cost prohibitive (especially on larger more costly reels), and I've noticed that felt roughness in the gear set is not always directly proportional to wear.  Small burrs can cause roughness, minor wear in low gear is not as noticable as equal wear on large diameter high speed gears.  Also materials wear different, and feel different when worn.  It seems that sometimes replacing only 1 of the 3 or 4 components can bring back a reel's felt smoothness.  Bronze alloy in combination with SS seems to stay smoother longer, but wears more unevenly for instance, whereas 2 gears made of a harder material require tigger tollerances to achieve the same level of smoothness, wear more slowly, but become rough with actual wear more quickly.  Corrosion, and performance under stress (both heat and mechanical) become factors too.  When it comes to gear sets not all are created equel.  And when servicing used reels judgement calls are often necessary here.  Just a few thoughts.

[foakes]

Probably hard to find a better value out there for this type of spinning reel -- a lot of com-parables would be in the $300 - $400 price range.  And likely even then -- not as good as this reel, according to Alan H.

Where else could you buy a reel like this that has been taken apart when new out of the box, inspected, analyzed, photographed, understood, lubed with marine grease and syn oil -- used hard in salt for 110 hours -- all the while paying attention to details such as drag smoothness, roughness in the drive train, etc?  Then it gets taken completely apart again -- just to see where any wear or damage might have become apparent after real world testing. 

Alan H. buys all of the reels he uses -- he doesn't want to have even the hint of any favoritism issues from any manufacturer.

And, it has a 7 stack CF/SS drag disc set standard -- that tests out at over 50 pounds.

I just ordered (2) of these from tackle direct -- for this price I should be able to use one for Salmon fishing (mooching) out of Moss, Half Moon, or Morro Bay, here in California.  Then in a couple of years as the price goes up on these -- might sell the unused one to cover the cost of both reels.  Should be good for the times when we are not trolling.  Might be good for surf or striper fishing also -- who knows?

Anyway, for this type of reel -- it seems like a good value.  We'll see.

Best,

Fred

[Three se7ens]

The lists page tells more about how highly he rates the lethal 100.  It's #4 on the finest spinning reels in the world list, and the stella SW is NOT even on the list.  It's also solidly #1 in the budget offshore reels, well above the saragosa SW.

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lists.html

[Tightlines667]

I still think I personally like the battle better, but this reel appears to have many features that could push it up to the top if it's class.  I really enjoy reading his reviews.  I must admit it takes me severel read throughs of the severel models to remember what I like/didn't like about a given models design features and components.  Sometimes I get a bit lost in the tall grasses.  Seems a bit tricky to compare overall design and functionality of the reel as a whole.  It is much easier to see the merits of a particular high quality part or sub assembly.  This reel definately appears to have some good features, but also has some flaws or weak points.  I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel.  You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.

[philaroman]

...I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel.  You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.

it's called a Saltiga Dogfight & it costs $1300; the older model was on sale for $1000...  I won't be getting either one

[erikpowell]

Well, I couldn't find the $114 free shipping AlanHawk did, Tackle Direct wanted  130+ $15  shipping
so I hit amazon, got $135 free shipping.

Soon I'll have another brother for my Offshores 5500 & 8500.

I love my conventionals too boys, but I pop and jig a lot.... spinners have their place!

oh crap, I just realized there goes an fifth of my savings towards a Torque20... 

[johndtuttle]

I still think I personally like the battle better, but this reel appears to have many features that could push it up to the top if it's class.  I really enjoy reading his reviews.  I must admit it takes me severel read throughs of the severel models to remember what I like/didn't like about a given models design features and components.  Sometimes I get a bit lost in the tall grasses.  Seems a bit tricky to compare overall design and functionality of the reel as a whole.  It is much easier to see the merits of a particular high quality part or sub assembly.  This reel definately appears to have some good features, but also has some flaws or weak points.  I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel.  You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.

Unfortunately it's more complicated than that as the end users have so many opinions as to what they want in a reel.

What I love about AlanHawk is his brutal honesty about the reels he reviews but let us acknowledge that he would be the first to say that his sample is *one* reel. Just as it is when I do a teardown, to be sure.

What this means to those with a knowledge of statistics is that the "power" of such findings are not ideal with such a small sample.

Consequently, I tend to give more leeway to Shimano, Penn, Okuma, Daiwa that they will sort things out with their outstanding customer service and technical resources. Conversely, I think Alan holds them to a higher standard, as is his prerogative.

Ok, what am I trying to say?

Let's hope all the users of the Lethal 100 find it is everything we all could hope for in a large (30oz) budget spinner from China. Any new reel from offshore also has to demonstrate consistency of manufacturing quality.

Time will tell.


regards



ps.  Dang, I sound like a Negative Nancy but he did find some amazing flaws that I think he was willing to overlook as he was "smitten" by the value. 

[maxpowers]

I still think I personally like the battle better, but this reel appears to have many features that could push it up to the top if it's class.  I really enjoy reading his reviews.  I must admit it takes me severel read throughs of the severel models to remember what I like/didn't like about a given models design features and components.  Sometimes I get a bit lost in the tall grasses.  Seems a bit tricky to compare overall design and functionality of the reel as a whole.  It is much easier to see the merits of a particular high quality part or sub assembly.  This reel definately appears to have some good features, but also has some flaws or weak points.  I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel.  You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.

Unfortunately it's more complicated than that as the end users have so many opinions as to what they want in a reel.

What I love about AlanHawk is his brutal honesty about the reels he reviews but let us acknowledge that he would be the first to say that his sample is *one* reel. Just as it is when I do a teardown, to be sure.

What this means to those with a knowledge of statistics is that the "power" of such findings are not ideal with such a small sample.

Consequently, I tend to give more leeway to Shimano, Penn, Okuma, Daiwa that they will sort things out with their outstanding customer service and technical resources. Conversely, I think Alan holds them to a higher standard, as is his prerogative.

Ok, what am I trying to say?

Let's hope all the users of the Lethal 100 find it is everything we all could hope for in a large (30oz) budget spinner from China. Any new reel from offshore also has to demonstrate consistency of manufacturing quality.

Time will tell.


regards



ps.  Dang, I sound like a Negative Nancy but he did find some amazing flaws that I think he was willing to overlook as he was "smitten" by the value. 

I agreed about the potential issue with the drag heating up.  However for a $100 that can be used on 60-80 lbs tuna , wahoo, and smaller pelagics consistently at 25-35 lbs of smooth drag, I cannot complain about it.  The drive train is much more impressive than my Penn 8500 SSV.  If this reel's potential lives up to long term use, I would not be surprised at an aftermarket spool and cap developed that address the heat issue.  Again the fact that much better materials were incorporated into this reel is what is the most surprising part.  Machined bronze gear and stainless steel pinion, full metal body, smooth drag and all of it in a $100 reel.  It should serve notice to Penn, Shimano, and Daiwa that the days of claiming that it is not possible to get quality materials into budget reels are over.

[johndtuttle]

It's more complicated than that  .

Note, that Fin Nor did not incorporate the Hardened Brass (not "Marine Bronze") main gear and Stainless Pinion into their smaller reels. You have to ask, why? They may be taking a "loss leader" on the Lethal 100 to generate buzz and market share which Fin Nor sorely needs. It is also a very large reel that will have limited use for most spin fisherman, has atrocious line lay that is not adjustable and a number of manufacturing and finishing flaws that are worrisome for their quality control.

On the surface and as much as I respect my internet friend and teacher AlanHawk I think he was a bit enamoured by the value and the finding of the budget holy grail ie decent quality gears.

BUT, all I have is unfounded speculation of course. Pure conjecture. I have no idea about the costs of manufacturing reels in China though, in another life I have sourced outdoor gear for manufacture in Asia and know how pennies add up to serious dollars when you make small improvements. So, I have some limited insight.

The best I can say is that what it takes to make a successful product takes *years* of that product being out there so that any issues that may crop up can be resolved. Anodizing quality (worrisome), line lay (worrisome), shoddy molding (worrisome) can all create headaches over time.

Regardless, this is the reel I wish Penn was making with all of these issues cleaned up. The Lethal 100 is a Spinfisher SS through and through. All Penn original design with the addition of a Daiwa Dog, in another good looking package. You could make this reel with this exact same design, a touch better yet materials and quality control, in all sizes...and spin fisherman would beat a path to your door.


best

[maxpowers]

John,

I agreed wholeheartedly about the smaller Lethal.  I bought the 100 to compare to my 8500 SSV.  When I am offshore I reached for my conventional first before a spinner, but there are instances where I wished I had a decent spinner, (flylining small baits to skittish fish, ie hanging far back of the chum line 30-40 yards).  I just don't want to spend upward of $600 or more for a reel that see limited action.  If the Lethal 100 is capable of doing what I am hoping it will, then it will fit nicely.  For the smaller size 4500-6500, I still like the spinfishers more at this point.  My hope is that even if this is a loss leader that Fin-nor will not cheapened the materials going forward.

[foakes]

For me, value is a combination of price, functionality, and reliability.

When we get the reels, we can try them out and report any positives and negatives.

Ability to get parts, and a company that offers good service -- is also a factor.

We will have to wait to see about a couple of these value issues.

This could be just an experiment by the engineers and marketing folks at Fin Nor -- or it could be an evolutionary step in the right direction for one tackle company -- time will tell.

Most all of us here, can find at least one or two weak points with the best and most expensive reels in the world -- and many more issues with lesser reels.  That is why we have the ability to upgrade and improve the products with clever and more durable custom components.

Like Alan Tani has said, we can over-do our hot-rodding jobs to a point where the equipment is not cost effective anymore.

Even if I could afford (I can't) and justify attaching $800 - $1300 on the south end of one of my sticks -- I wouldn't do it.

Appreciate the thoughtful comments by all of the contributors to this thread -- and to Reinaard for starting this thread.

Does anyone remember this short-lived spinning reel from a few years ago?  The engineering is way over the top -- ABU discontinued production of what may have been the finest spinner ever.

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/suv4.html

Best,

Fred

[coonhound]

It's more complicated than that  .

Note, that Fin Nor did not incorporate the Hardened Brass (not "Marine Bronze") main gear and Stainless Pinion into their smaller reels. You have to ask, why? They may be taking a "loss leader" on the Lethal 100 to generate buzz and market share which Fin Nor sorely needs. It is also a very large reel that will have limited use for most spin fisherman, has atrocious line lay that is not adjustable and a number of manufacturing and finishing flaws that are worrisome for their quality control.

On the surface and as much as I respect my internet friend and teacher AlanHawk I think he was a bit enamoured by the value and the finding of the budget holy grail ie decent quality gears.

BUT, all I have is unfounded speculation of course. Pure conjecture. I have no idea about the costs of manufacturing reels in China though, in another life I have sourced outdoor gear for manufacture in Asia and know how pennies add up to serious dollars when you make small improvements. So, I have some limited insight.

The best I can say is that what it takes to make a successful product takes *years* of that product being out there so that any issues that may crop up can be resolved. Anodizing quality (worrisome), line lay (worrisome), shoddy molding (worrisome) can all create headaches over time.

Regardless, this is the reel I wish Penn was making with all of these issues cleaned up. The Lethal 100 is a Spinfisher SS through and through. All Penn original design with the addition of a Daiwa Dog, in another good looking package. You could make this reel with this exact same design, a touch better yet materials and quality control, in all sizes...and spin fisherman would beat a path to your door.


best

I think Penn especially will have to take notice, as this competes strongest against the SSV line and addresses the biggest flaws in their reels: inferior gearing and an unsupported shaft.  It's like Zebco said, "We can make the old 750SS and compete at the same price point as the SSVs."  I hope the LT100 does so well that Penn is forced to address it.