Penn Senator 12/0

omegafoo · August 02, 2010, 12:21:49 PM

I've got a Penn Senator 12/0 metal spool that, according to the handle, should be a 1980's model that I just recently bought.

When I got it, it seemed to be fine. Handle turned the spool, not problem. We took it out shark fishing this weekend and the reel pretty much froze up. We made one drop around probably 200-250 yards or so. Caught a fish on a different rod and decided to reel them all in to check baits and this is when the 12/0 froze up.

The things I noticed when I took it apart:

It was full of old dried grease. I cleaned it completely and greased it.
The drag washers were hard and glazed over. I've ordered new drags to replace them.
The Penn 116L schematic showed 7 drags and there were only 5 in this reel, albeit 5 THICK washers.

After cleaning and putting it back together and taking apart several times it appears that the edge of the reel spool is sunken in slightly inside the side plates and that it's binding and rubbing a ring from the edge of the spool on the inside of the side plates.

Without the spool in place it's nice and smooth.

Any thoughts?

franky · August 02, 2010, 07:46:28 PM

Yeah, I am also looking for a response to this one...

I got the same problem with the penn squidder 140 reel.

I serviced everything and the spool seemed sunken into the sideplate and the binding, etc...

Zoomie Juice · August 02, 2010, 10:50:19 PM

Just throwing out a thought here: any chance you indeed have a 10/0 instead? The 12/0 should have 7 drag washers whereas the 10/0 (115L) will have 5. You said the reel was from the 80's, sure it's been worked on quite a bit and people often confuse the 115 and 116. Maybe the spool (or other parts) are incorrect? Not even sure if a 12/0 spool would fit or vise versa. Is it just wearing just one sideplate or both? If it is both, it could be a 12/0 with 10/0 frame posts. Just wanted to get some ideas out there for you to start a discussion!

omegafoo · August 03, 2010, 01:25:44 AM

Zoomie

I checked the posts and they are the nearly 4" posts from a 12/0, at least from the picture on the mysticparts.com site. One side plate says 12/0 and the other says "Senator", Penn Fishing Tackle Co, Philadelphia, PA with a boat catching a marlin. It's a 12/0 that I just bought from Joel B on the tx-shark site.

Also, from that site, one of the recommendations was to sight down the side of the spool and it would be obvious, but I can't see anything or just don't know what I'm looking at if it's a spread spool.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

broadway · August 03, 2010, 02:59:30 AM

Make sure it's in retrieve mode on the eccentric lever, and the spool is seated properly on both sides before closing her up. spin the spool until it seats on the spindle. If there's warpage in either sideplate this could bring the ring to close to the spool I suppose. Are your bearings all the way in? Of course this is one of only two senators I haven't cracked open YET! The vintage 10/0's have five...that I know. Let us know what you figure out. Thanks
Dom

omegafoo · August 03, 2010, 11:52:28 AM

This one has the screw in "bearings" on each end. There are no ball bearings in the reel itself to replace.

akfish · August 03, 2010, 03:22:24 PM

Early 12/0s had 5 drag washers; later 12/0s had 7 HT-100 drag washers. You want the later system. The 115L is a 9/0, not a 10/0. The 10/0 and 12/0 have the same drag. The two reels are identical except for width.

alantani · August 03, 2010, 05:46:46 PM

i'm wondering if the spool split open under pressure from the line. you'd have to pull off all the line to check that one.

franky · August 03, 2010, 10:42:39 PM

Okay, I'm back...

I am still at a lost when it comes to the spool appearing to be sunken (approx 1/16 of an inch) into the sideplate (for the squidder that I serviced, on both sidesplates)

I also wondered if the customer tried to modify the reel (reel came to me in pieces in a box). It can't be the wrong size support post because the reel seat also fits. Thus I suspect the spool must be wrong (too long); but how can it be the wrong size spool by simply being too long by 1/16 of an inch on both sides?

The bearing cap is all the way in on the right sideplate (handle side), and the only adjustable bearing is the one on the left sideplate.

Anyway, I decided to go to the beach and try testing the reel "in person" and see what is going on. I was able to cast the reel 100 yards

then as I started reeling in the line, the reel started binding up and the cranking of the handle became very stiff

.

Omegafoo....Here is a posible solution to the binding.

I checked the "side-to-side" play of the spool and found that it was very tight. I loosened the left side adjustable bearing cap and wha...lah... the binding was solved! The bearing cap spinned lose on its own and tighten the play of the spool as I casted or as I was reeling in. I got back home and called the fishing supply shops to find a new bearing cap. The guy at one of the shops told me "no, look at the bearing cap; you'll see vertical lines around the sleeve surronding the bearing cap. Take a pair of pliers and very carefully pinch the fins inward JUST A LITTLE. You don't want to snap off the fins. Those fins will apply pressure on the bearing cap and hold it steady so that it will not loosen up or tighten up on you.

BINDING PROBLEM SOLVED.

Now, I am still confused about the sunken spool problem. I feel like just asking the customer to replace the spool since it is old, rusted, and a little warped. I just can't explain how the spool grew in length to allow it to have the tiny gap between the sideplates.

broadway · August 04, 2010, 12:30:22 AM

Franky,

Glad you got the binding issue fixed

Do you know anyone with a 12/0... this way you can throw the spool you've been having trouble with on that to see for sure if it's a warpage in the side plates or in the spool. The spool didn't grow a 1/16th of an inch if you don't see bent edges. I still think it's in the sideplates. I bought a 16/0 recently that has warped sideplates...Alan recommended I take a bastard file to it, but haven't had a chance yet. I keep getting stuck working on others reels

I have over 25 senators from the 1/0 to 16/0 and haven't found a warped spool yet (though, I know they exist) I have, on the other hand, had 4 warped sideplates. Let us know what you come up with. BTW, I mentioned checking the "bearings" to make sure they are all the way in... I meant bushing and bearing. Glad you figured that part out. I have had 3 people in the past 2 months come to me asking why their spool didn't spin or spun loosely, and it was that spool bushing/bearing too tight or too loose. Good Luck
Dom

akfish · August 04, 2010, 01:24:29 AM

I have seen quite a few warped spools on the smaller (1/0, 2/0, and 3/0) Senators; they just don't hold mono well. But I've yet to see a bad spool on one of the larger Senators...

franky · August 04, 2010, 01:39:24 AM

Quote from: broadway on August 04, 2010, 12:30:22 AM
Franky,

Glad you got the binding issue fixed Do you know anyone with a 12/0... this way you can throw the spool you've been having trouble with on that to see for sure if it's a warpage in the side plates or in the spool. The spool didn't grow a 1/16th of an inch if you don't see bent edges. I still think it's in the sideplates.
Dom

Thanks for the reply Dom.

Actually, I do not have a 12/0. I was working on a penn squidder with the same issues (binding and sunken spool) described by Omegafoo's original post. Hopefully my experimental findings and solution will be able to help him resolve his binding isssue with his 12/0 as well.

In regards to the sideplate being warped, I also thought about that posibility. However, the gap between the spool's edge and the sideplate is 1/16th of an inch equally all around the spool because the spool is pushed into the sideplate. This amazingly occurs on both sides of the spool; thus making me wonder if the spool grew (which I know it couldn't have).

See, if I were to shim the right sideplate so that the spool's edge will be even to the right sideplate, then I would have 2/16 of an inch on the left sideplate equally all around the spool.

Anyway, I'll keep trying...If I find another solution, I'll post the results.

omegafoo · August 04, 2010, 02:30:07 PM

franky,

The side play on the 12/0 is non-existent. I can take the bushing on each end out and there is still no side play. The spool is binding on both of the side plates.

Cortez_Conversions · August 04, 2010, 06:09:37 PM

Ok, just trouble shooting here, both of the chrome beauty rings are in, right? Does the spool spin true, or does it wobble?

franky · August 04, 2010, 07:19:40 PM

Quote from: omegafoo on August 04, 2010, 02:30:07 PM
franky,

The side play on the 12/0 is non-existent. I can take the bushing on each end out and there is still no side play. The spool is binding on both of the side plates.

Hmmm.

That does not sound normal. I believe, or at least thought, that all conventional reels have the ability to adjust for the side-to-side play with the spools.

The only thing that I can think of is (like Cortez Conversions) says...its gotta be something external as opposed to something internal. Did you check to see if both sideplates have the crome sideplate rings (2 on each side for a total of 4 chrome sideplate rings)? This is the only thing that could possibly affect the length of the overall reel (unless the spool grew in length

)

If the reel free spooled when you first got it; and now it is dab smack "end-to-end" on both sides of the spool with absolutely no play (even if you totally remove both of the bearing caps)...Dude, you got me

Sounds like you got to get longer support post and reel seat, or you got to get a new shorter spool.

Btw, how much gap are you talking about when you say space between the spool and the sideplate ring. Is it like mine...1/16th of an inch? or is it more?