Stradic FJ 4000 feels funny

[newport]

Hi everyone, i'm confused about my stradic fj that I have had for almost a year, and did my first teardown a few weeks ago. I literally took everything apart and cleaned it with no trouble at all (none that I'm aware of). I've done spinners before and none have given me any trouble afterwards, but the stradic would be my first spinning reel with a worm gear. Well anyway,  after the service , the reel felt even better than when I first bought it brand new. The superlube really makes it feel buttery smooth. I used it about a dozen times since then, but just today as I was throwing lures out at my local river, all of a sudden it felt wrong. It felt geary, but it wasn't  exactly rough or grinding. The best way I can explain how it felt was that it was like I was only turning the drive gear. Kind of like the pinion gear wasn't there, but the lure was still being retrieved . Also, the drag I set beforehand felt less when I pulled line out with my hand. As I was getting ready to leave and go home to take my reel apart, the reel felt normal and smooth again. I fished another hour and a half to see if it would feel weird again, but it hasn't. Any idea what is wrong? I don't want to take it apart over one incident without knowing what's wrong. I appreciate any help.

[newport]

I guess another way of explaining it would be that it felt as if the handle was directly threaded into the drive gear as if there was no sideplate. I don't know, it's not like I ever done that before.

[FatTuna]

Hi newport. I've done a few Stadic FJs and I think I might know the issue. There are two pinion bearings on this model. The bottom one, part number 13829, has a habit of not being seated all the way. When that happens the gears might feel a bit rough as everything is not meshing correctly. See if adjusting that bearing helps.

[johndtuttle]

When you get in there be sure to take careful note of the number and position of any shims. If you don't get them back where you found them you can get roughness as well.

My sense is that your gear train has worn some and it may need additional shims to tighten it up again. I would want to crank against a little load to be sure.

[newport]

Thanks for the replies. So I opened and rechecked everything. Gears still look good in my eyes and even used a magnifying glass to see any noticeable wear on the teeth ( there were none that I could see). The bearings are fine. Shims are all in the right places. I called shimano and the person I talked to seem convinced that the gears aren't meshing correctly.  Never had problems with gear meshing before and I double checked that the gears were good before putting the reel back together. Now, I could turn my reel in for service and the only thing I would have to pay is shipping, but the problem is that it's spring, and I want to fish the reel. I do not want to wait 2-3 weeks. Sure I have other reels, but still...
John, I did reel against light drag setting and it felt really rough sometimes.. So maybe it really is the gear not meshing correctly? I haven't noticed anything after putting it back together again, but if I do then I will have to give up and send it in. In the mean time, any ideas?

[FatTuna]

When you took it apart and you checked the little bearing on the bottom, did you turn the pinion with your fingers to see how it felt? That little bearing on the bottom is really finicky. It has to be completely flush. It's difficult to tell just by looking at it. When it's not seated correctly the pinion and top bearing will pop out a little. I check it with the main gear and anti-reverse removed but I don't take out the worm. I turn the top on the pinion to see how it feels. I use an awl to lightly push the bearing all the way in if it needs an adjustment.

You could be experiencing gear wear, but from what you are describing, I think it is unlikely because the reel was fine before the service. I was experiencing a very similar issue on my stradics. I did a bunch of them and they all felt like that until I started playing with that bottom bearing.

As John stated, if there is some gear wear one extra shim can sometimes make the reel feel better. I've done that on some older spinners.

[newport]

I did look at the bottom pinion bearing and it looked snug where it was at. With your earlier comment in mind, I did try to push it in further, but it didn't budge and it looked like it was in the right place, so didn't focus on it too much. I did turn the pinion back and forth with the drive gear on it, and did not notice anything off. If I run into any more problmes then next time I will look more closely at it. Thanks again.

[Slazmo]

I called shimano and the person I talked to seem convinced that the gears aren't meshing correctly.  Never had problems with gear meshing before and I double checked that the gears were good before putting the reel back together.

Its as common as a cold. 

If the bearings are not properly seated (especially the X Ship bearing) the reel wouldnt go back together - especially the pinion as its got to go right the way down for the rotor to fit properly.

Providing that all shims and bearings are correctly seated as you confirmed, within their recesses its down to wear of the gears and how the reel hasnt been assembled back together with the same gear mesh. Its the hardest part of my job trying to get the gears back to the same or nearest mesh point that you disassembled it from.

Apart from marking the gear set (heavy scratch / dremel a line on both gears) on both the pinion gear and the drive gear its pretty much just a 'fingers crossed' moment. I am pretty against marking reels internally for my customers sake however if I do notice some poor gear wear I do dissasemble and try to 1/4 turn the drive gear and reassemble and retest that gear match point.

I am 100% confident that its something as simple as the meshing of gears, new reels feel new as the gears are new, used reels feel near new but dry because the gears are still in their original mesh; once you disturb that mesh its all on and its geary...

[newport]

I called shimano and the person I talked to seem convinced that the gears aren't meshing correctly.  Never had problems with gear meshing before and I double checked that the gears were good before putting the reel back together.

Its as common as a cold. 

If the bearings are not properly seated (especially the X Ship bearing) the reel wouldnt go back together - especially the pinion as its got to go right the way down for the rotor to fit properly.

Providing that all shims and bearings are correctly seated as you confirmed, within their recesses its down to wear of the gears and how the reel hasnt been assembled back together with the same gear mesh. Its the hardest part of my job trying to get the gears back to the same or nearest mesh point that you disassembled it from.

Apart from marking the gear set (heavy scratch / dremel a line on both gears) on both the pinion gear and the drive gear its pretty much just a 'fingers crossed' moment. I am pretty against marking reels internally for my customers sake however if I do notice some poor gear wear I do dissasemble and try to 1/4 turn the drive gear and reassemble and retest that gear match point.

I am 100% confident that its something as simple as the meshing of gears, new reels feel new as the gears are new, used reels feel near new but dry because the gears are still in their original mesh; once you disturb that mesh its all on and its geary...

hey slazmo, i appreciate your input. The common cold reference, i assume your saying the gear meshing problem is very common? I haven't had any further issues after my last reassemble, but then again, i really havent done much either. If anything conmes up, i'll post again.

[Slazmo]

Ha ha Yeh that's what i meant... God I got to remember the loss of value in our 'strine' language. I should have kept itsimple too.

Anyhow I have made the decision to mark gear sets for their reinstall so so that gears have a bbetter chance to mesh when then reel goes back together.

Any issues let me know. I'll be doing about 4 reels tomorrow 2 x Steez,  Zillion, Stradic Ci4  which all need work...

Will see how i go and take a pic of the marked gear set to show what i mean.

Andrew

[newport]

I fished extensively yesterday and today and so far so good. Perhaps i got lucky this time around.

It would be great if you post pictures of how you mark your gear sets. I am going to start doing that from now on.

[Slazmo]

This is how I mark them.

Simply a metal scribe just ensure that the pinion shaft is all the way at the bottom of the cycle, ensure that you dont remove the LH / RH side plate with the Main Gear still inserted into it - everything needs to be left in as was.

You can mark it with a V as I did, draw flowers or love hearts whatever you fancy

This from my latest Steez rebuild(s).

[newport]

Slazmo, i appreciate that very much, thanks my earlier problem must have been the gear meshing like you said.