Aluminum Jig Master side plate sets

PacRat · January 27, 2016, 11:17:20 PM

Thanks for all the good advice. Here's what I found when I went through it today: No gobs of grease on the shaft, pinion or spool flange. Free-spool with the pinion gear installed=5 seconds. Free-spool without the pinion gear=75 seconds. Seems that the pinion is the smoking gun. So I measured the Newell shaft and compared it to a Penn shaft and the Newell shaft was slightly smaller diameter than the Penn shaft so I didn't mess with it. The PC pinion felt a little tighter than the Penn so I reamed it out slightly to 0.171" which is very close to my other PC and Penn pinions. I cleaned up the pinion and re-assembled and I'm still at 5 seconds of free-spool. I'm using a brand new PC stainless yoke and it is right side up. Have any of you guys ever had to tweak or tune a yoke? Also will grease on the yoke at the pinion groove affect free-spool? I've always greased there because of the wear we use to get with the old brass yokes.
-Mike

steelhead_killer · January 28, 2016, 12:07:35 AM

Check to make sure the eccentric jack is sitting flush when you pin it all together. The guide pin needs to ride right in the slot. I know basic stuff here, but I had it sitting a little out of the slot and it was causing some binding at the pinion I believe. Not an expert by any means but it helped me!

I did not have to tweak the yoke, just make sure its put on with the rounded edges facing you. I have not used the PC pinion of gears yet, sorry.

Maxed Out · January 28, 2016, 12:31:48 AM

The pinion doesn't turn when in freespool. The spool shaft spins inside the pinion, so a wad of grease on your yoke shouldn't matter.

redfish12 · January 28, 2016, 12:51:43 AM

Is it possible there is an angle to your pinion from the way the yoke is sitting that could be causing some friction? Maybe try backing the upper bridge screws out a hair and check free spool again.

Also, the green goblin I posted earlier in this thread owes credit to our dear friend Randy! The old green tiburon frame is a tough find and Randy was a pleasure as always to work with! I should also add the newell styled drag star from Adam of Motive Fabrication is also awesome! Thanks guys for making great products and most of all thanks TOM for making these plates!

PacRat · January 28, 2016, 02:41:43 AM

That's what I'm suspecting...a tilted pinion. I did swap yokes and free-spool improved to 15 seconds from 5 but it's still low compared to 75 without the pinion. I'm not totally fixated on free-spool but it's a good indication that something is still a little off. Would changing the jack springs springs help in any way?

Alto Mare · January 28, 2016, 03:04:50 AM

Check the grove on the pinion where it rides on the yoke, at times they're no cleaned as they should be. Turn the pinion on the yoke by hand and see how it feels compared to the stock pinion.
If it feels a little rough, hit it with a file and keep testing until in feels smooth.
This could be done by hand, but I have a tapered piece of wood that I jam in the pinion, I chuck it up on my drill press and hold a file to it. A dremel will also work.
As Ted mentioned, during freespool, the spool shaft spins in the pinion. Make sure the inner side of the pinion is cleaned nicely. You could use a small bit wrapped with extra fine steel wool, one of Fred's brilliant idea. The spool shaft needs to be very smooth and clean as well. By the way, is your spool centered?

Sal

PacRat · January 28, 2016, 06:35:18 AM

Thanks Sal, I'm going to take a closer look at the pinion tomorrow. Today I measured it and it seemed tighter than my other pinions so I drilled it out to 11/64 or 0.172. Only a few shavings came out but it fit more like my Penn pinions and it looked real clean inside. I polished it anyway. Tonight I read an old thread where you put 505 gears in a 500 and you drilled the pinion out to 3/16". Do you think a PC pinion can go to 3/16" or will it become weak and/or sloppy? I'll also have a look at the groove.

Maybe I'm being too fussy but all these new components are just too beautiful to not give them all the attention they deserve. Overall, I'm very happy with the quality of all the parts and the finished reel is a fish killing machine. I know it's not even broken in yet and I can feel it improving every time I mess with it. I'm going to take one last look under the hood then put line on it and break it in a bit before messing with it much more. I'll likely be slinging jigs with this anyway and free-spool won't be too important. I've got Newells for flylining bait anyway.

Thank you everyone for all the help.
-Mike

Alto Mare · January 28, 2016, 11:42:10 AM

Mike, being fussy is a good thing. I'm very fussy at my job, maybe too fussy. I can't get anyone to work with me, most that try don't last very long

.
Yes, you could drill the pinion, but there isn't a need to do so. Alan C. will have anything we would ever need for these reels, we just need a little patience.
All the parts he mentioned yesterday, I already have. I've been testing those for some time now.
Being as fussy as you are, you will really enjoy the latest gears when they come available. Those feel very smooth, the stainless steel pinion and main are both heat treated...not bad.
He might be knocking himself out of business though, those should last a long while

Sal

steelhead_killer · January 28, 2016, 04:01:08 PM

Any word on when another round of Jigmaster side plates will be available from Cortez Conversions? His inventory list shows all sold out, not surprised... As nice as they are I am sure more and more people would buy them...

PacRat · January 28, 2016, 04:03:53 PM

Sal, I just received an order of gears this week and I believe they're heat treated as the pinion has a bit of a brown color. I noticed this yesterday when I was comparing pinions. The pinion that I've been working with was received a couple of weeks ago and is a brighter silver color.

Joe, I do a bit of gunsmithing too...probably why I'm so anal about perfection. Of course the stakes aren't as high but guns and reels do go well together and all the gunsmithing tools and knowlege really help when working on reels.

-Mike

Alto Mare · January 28, 2016, 04:25:34 PM

Mike, the gears that I've mentioned are not in production yet, but will be soon. I think i'm the only one with those, but I might be wrong. $:-\$

Sal

thorhammer · January 28, 2016, 10:59:19 PM

Quote from: steelhead_killer on January 28, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
Any word on when another round of Jigmaster side plates will be available from Cortez Conversions? His inventory list shows all sold out, not surprised... As nice as they are I am sure more and more people would buy them...

I'm in for four - six sets right now.

Maxed Out · January 29, 2016, 07:03:21 PM

Quote from: PacRat on January 28, 2016, 02:41:43 AM
That's what I'm suspecting...a tilted pinion. I did swap yokes and free-spool improved to 15 seconds from 5 but it's still low compared to 75 without the pinion. I'm not totally fixated on free-spool but it's a good indication that something is still a little off. Would changing the jack springs springs help in any way?

Mike, what happens when its in freespool and you crank the handle ? This test will tell you how much friction is on the spool shaft inside of your pinion. If it is abnormal you will know right away that the pinion is the issue.

Tightlines667 · January 29, 2016, 07:10:30 PM

Also, may want to check to see if there is any spool wobble with respect to the inner rings. If so, the stand may be slightly bent, causing misalignment of the pinion and spool.

PacRat · January 29, 2016, 08:00:21 PM

Ted, When in freespool this thing is as smooth as silk. If you turn the crank the spool will turn but only due to pinion/shaft friction and it will stop turning with the slightest thumb contact, then you only hear the dogs ticking away. The gear mesh sounds and feels very smooth.

John, There's no wobble or movement of the spool in relation to the frame (Tib P21)...just a few thousandths side-to-side as adjusted. This has a Newell spool and there's no contact on the spool flanges or fins. This is the smoothest Jigmaster I've ever handled. Very tight tolerances but no binding or strange sounds, ticks, etc.

This reel is a testament to the talents, skills and knowledge of the combined body of this board...especially the machinists who make parts for us and those who figure out how to make all these parts play well together.

I've learned a lot on this project (labor of love) and I've come to some conclusions that I did an extensive write-up this morning but photobucket was down for maintenance and I lost the whole thing when I tried to attach photos...I'm still trying to cope with that. I really wanted to throttle the photobucket kitty today! I'll repost when photo bucket is working again.
-Mike