Jon, I have a question for you.

[RiverAngler]

I will be starting my rod building and repair workbench soon. I have a question for you. If it's ok.

I have seen only 2 spiral wrapped rods to date. What is the advantage of this type of wrap? Where does the "backbone" go on a casting rod? Top or bottom?

TIA
Ralph

[SoCalAngler]

RA you have a PM

[Jon Vadney]

The spine is always in the same location no matter what type of rod you are building or what guide placement you are going with.  When you spine a rod in your hands (both hands out near the tip, rod butt in the air), and you rotate it, you'll feel it snap into a specific location.  Now... regardless of what type of rod we are building, the blank is going to be in this orientation when fishing it.  What i mean by that is that the components change their location, the blank doesn't.  If you were building a spinning rod, the guides and reelseat would be on the bottom of the rod in this position.  Conventional rod=reel seat up and guides up.  Spiral=reelseat up and guides rotating to the 180 degree position. 

In regards to the advantage of a spiral wrapped rod, think about it like this:  if you wrapped each guide on the rod with only 3 thread wraps and wrapped it conventionally, put a reel on there, put the line through the guides and loaded the rod, what's going to happen to the guides?  They'll flip to the bottom of the rod.  Now...if you secure the guides with epoxy, that twist is going to be applied to the blank and in turn you have to now overcome that twisting pressure with your grip on the foregrip.   Additionally....if you spiral wrap the rod, the pressure on the guides under the rod will actually override the weight of the reel when there is a load on the rod.  What I mean by that is that you'll be able to open your hand on the foregrip while turning the handle of the reel and the rod won't want to flip to the reel down orientation.

People may disagree, but other than "spiral wrapped rods look weird", there are positively zero reasons not to spiral wrap any baitcasting/conventional rod.  The ONLY rod i would ever even consider not spiral wrapping would be a rod designed for distance casting competitions.  Tests have been performed and at most, with the most aggressive spiral method (ie: 2guide transition), you'll lose about 5% distance.  If I'm fishing, that 5% doesn't matter.  If I'm casting for money, different story. 

[Reel 224]

The spine is always in the same location no matter what type of rod you are building or what guide placement you are going with.  When you spine a rod in your hands (both hands out near the tip, rod butt in the air), and you rotate it, you'll feel it snap into a specific location.  Now... regardless of what type of rod we are building, the blank is going to be in this orientation when fishing it.  What i mean by that is that the components change their location, the blank doesn't.  If you were building a spinning rod, the guides and reelseat would be on the bottom of the rod in this position.  Conventional rod=reel seat up and guides up.  Spiral=reelseat up and guides rotating to the 180 degree position. 

In regards to the advantage of a spiral wrapped rod, think about it like this:  if you wrapped each guide on the rod with only 3 thread wraps and wrapped it conventionally, put a reel on there, put the line through the guides and loaded the rod, what's going to happen to the guides?  They'll flip to the bottom of the rod.  Now...if you secure the guides with epoxy, that twist is going to be applied to the blank and in turn you have to now overcome that twisting pressure with your grip on the foregrip.   Additionally....if you spiral wrap the rod, the pressure on the guides under the rod will actually override the weight of the reel when there is a load on the rod.  What I mean by that is that you'll be able to open your hand on the foregrip while turning the handle of the reel and the rod won't want to flip to the reel down orientation.

People may disagree, but other than "spiral wrapped rods look weird", there are positively zero reasons not to spiral wrap any baitcasting/conventional rod.  The ONLY rod i would ever even consider not spiral wrapping would be a rod designed for distance casting competitions.  Tests have been performed and at most, with the most aggressive spiral method (ie: 2guide transition), you'll lose about 5% distance.  If I'm fishing, that 5% doesn't matter.  If I'm casting for money, different story. 

Jon: I have a question. On a conventional rod facing the reel up where do you turn the guides? To the right or Left? And is there a degree of twist for guide positioning?

Joe

[Tiddlerbasher]

On a conventional setup I always spiral to the left. There is then a tendency for the line to build-up more at the left hand end of the reel. This can be easily countered by 'pushing' the line with your left thumb. It becomes second nature almost immediately. It is much easier than trying to guide the line onto the reel by pushing and pulling

[Jon Vadney]

On a conventional setup I always spiral to the left. There is then a tendency for the line to build-up more at the left hand end of the reel. This can be easily countered by 'pushing' the line with your left thumb. It becomes second nature almost immediately. It is much easier than trying to guide the line onto the reel by pushing and pulling

I spiral them the opposite direction of the reel handle on any setup where a reel without a levelwind will be used.  On freshwater rods, I spiral them the direction of the handle.  The reason for this is a lot of times people are setting the rods on the ground/deck of their bass boats and when you spiral them the direction of the handle, the guides will face up when the rod is laid down.  A bass setup will rest on the sideplate when set down so spiraling the guides the direction of the handle helps to protect the guides by keeping them facing up.

In terms of degrees for the rotation, there are no formulas.  You have to static test.  I bend the rod close to maximum and look at the line going through the transition guides.  What I'm looking for is the line to make a straight path from the top to the bottom of the rod when viewed from the side.  I don't want there to be lateral pressure on the transition guides and this is how I avoid that.  

[Reel 224]

On a conventional setup I always spiral to the left. There is then a tendency for the line to build-up more at the left hand end of the reel. This can be easily countered by 'pushing' the line with your left thumb. It becomes second nature almost immediately. It is much easier than trying to guide the line onto the reel by pushing and pulling

I spiral them the opposite direction of the reel handle on any setup where a reel without a levelwind will be used.  On freshwater rods, I spiral them the direction of the handle.  The reason for this is a lot of times people are setting the rods on the ground/deck of their bass boats and when you spiral them the direction of the handle, the guides will face up when the rod is laid down.  A bass setup will rest on the sideplate when set down so spiraling the guides the opposite direction of the handle helps to protect the guides by keeping them facing up.

In terms of degrees for the rotation, there are no formulas.  You have to static test.  I bend the rod close to maximum and look at the line going through the transition guides.  What I'm looking for is the line to make a straight path from the top to the bottom of the rod when viewed from the side.  I don't want there to be lateral pressure on the transition guides and this is how I avoid that.  

Thank you Jon.

Joe

[RiverAngler]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Now It get it.

[sdlehr]

I've built a few spiral rods for myself, and I'm always surprised when seasoned fishermen comment that they've never seen one before. That's another one of the benefits of building your own rods... Another term for this is an "acid wrap" - presumably because in the sixties when it was first introduced a comment was made that whoever wrapped that rod "must've been on acid". They work as advertised, Jon's comments were totally on point. I'll never wrap another casting rod conventionally again (for myself).

There's more info here http://www.acidrod.com/acidrods.html

Sid

[thorhammer]

All great stuff right here guys!

[RiverAngler]

Thanks Sid. That was a very interesting read. I get it now, Jon, and it makes perfect sense.

[cbar45]

I do the same as Jon and spiral in the direction of the handle for level-winds; opposite the handle for non-levelwind.

Initial guide spacing is the same as you would do for a normal conventional setup.

Next, with the stripper guide taped at 0°, the two transitions are turned and taped at 60° and 120°, and the remaining runners turned and taped at 180°

Static test follows with the stripper and two transitions being adjusted accordingly.

One point that wasn't mentioned, is that for level-winds, it helps to offset the stripper 5-10° opposite the direction of spiral.

This helps to spool the line evenly, and avoid it piling up on one side of the spool.

To do so, simply cast or pull out 100 ft. or so of line with a weight tied at the end. Then reel it back on adjusting the stripper to an offset--such that the line defaults down the center of the blank as it is being spooled.

Chad

[Newell Nut]

X2 on all the points above. All of my personal rods are spiral and most of my custom customers want spirals. Just makes fishing easier when you have a heavy one on the hook.

[Aiala]

This old dog could never learn new spiral tricks... it's not for me. Guess I'm a Luddite; nothing I love more than looking through a perfectly aligned set of gleaming guides!   

~A~

[Newell Nut]

This old dog could never learn new spiral tricks... it's not for me. Guess I'm a Luddite; nothing I love more than looking through a perfectly aligned set of gleaming guides!   

~A~

It is difficult to teach an old Salty dog new tricks.