Salmon canning time again.

[Dominick]

Here is an interesting piece of trivia.  Jarden is a company that was a spin-off from Ball Canning Co.  Jarden is the parent company of Penn Reels.  So put that in you jar and can it.    Dominick

[swill88]

Here is an interesting piece of trivia.  Jarden is a company that was a spin-off from Ball Canning Co.  Jarden is the parent company of Penn Reels.  So put that in you jar and can it.    Dominick

There you go again Dominick... offering conundrums and no solutions...

steve

[mhc]

Dominick, are you implying it could be risky to eat Penn products? 

[ChileRelleno]

Dominick, are you implying it could be risky to eat Penn products? 

Every fish I eat is a Penn Product...  And I haven't died yet. 

[jigmaster501]

 I don't have time to fight and argue on this site.

No I am not a fear monger, I am just speaking the truth from years of experience dealing with many processors of many different types of food products.

I gave good advice and I will do it again. If you have a homemade process, have it validated by a RECOGNIZED PROCESS AUTHORITY. They have the scientific knowledge to determine if your process is an ACIDIFIED or LOW ACID CANNED FOOD PRODUCT.

They are 2 very different processes but can look the same in a regular Ball canning jar.

ACIDIFIED FOODS- product with an equilibrium pH of  4.6 or less (tomatoes 4.7 or less) and the product is cooked to kill vegetative cells of pathogenic and spoilage microorganism, equilibrate the pH ( to 4.6 or less....) and hot filled or pressure cooked to create a hermetic seal. An acid product is added as an ingredient to low acid products bringing the pH down..... 21 CFR 114

LOW ACID CANNED FOODS- a product with a pH ABOVE 4.6 and a water activity above .85. Product with a pH below .90 can be processed without pressure cooking if vegetative cells are heated, killed and hot filled with careful control of water activity using thickeners other ingredients that thicken the product and dropping water activity. For products with a water activity above .90 you will most likely need a pressure cooker or retort.  For this you will need to destroy all vegetative cells and destroy CBOT spores...... 21 CFR 113

Water activity it the measure of available free water in the product that can support the growth of microorganisms.

A good water activity meter costs about $8000. Out of all of our budgets for home processing
A good ph Meter can be had for about $150.
A good thermometer is $50.
A good pressure cooker for home canning, SPEAK WITH A PROCESS AUTHORITY
Cost of process authority- a few hundred dollars, if that...... MUCH LESS than an emergency room visit or booking a funeral parlor.

A recognized process authority which can be found at land grant universities, colleges with food science departments, food safety labs, etc can determine if your product can be safely with the ingredient you have and can tell you which ingredients need to be adjusted for safety. In addition, they can outline ALL of the critical factors required for safe processing including but not limited to ( pressure, temperature, pH, water activity, salt content, size of food chunks put in jar, ingredient differences, density, length of cooking, headspace, criteria for visual seam inspection, tightness testing, vacuum testing, etc, etc) WITH LACF products, your target is a 12D lethality (99.9999999999% destruction of CBOT spores) to prevent toxin formation in relation to factors listed above.  With a scheduled process for your product, you can get away with minimal equipment and still be SCIENTIFICALLY ASSURED that your product is produced safely.

ALSO, headspace size needs to be determined by a variety of factors and can differ by jar size, lid size, diameter of neck of jar,  etc, etc..... not just a standard headspace.

As for the Ball guides, the processes in there are scheduled processes that have been registered with FDA and are safe to use ONLY IF THE PROCESS IS NOT DEVIATED FROM AT ALL.  Any changes need to be reviewed by a process authority.

I am a Seafood Processing Subject Matter Expert, Seafood HACCP Instructor, Preventive Controls for Human Foods Instructor,  Certified Fisheries Professional with AFS and a licensed 50 ton Captain. I have also gone through Better Process Control School which is specifically for ACIDIFIED AND LACF PRODUCTS. That will not make ANYONE a process authority on  ACIDIFIED AND LACF PRODUCTS.  When it comes to LACF  and Acidified Foods scheduled processes, I tell everyone to speak with a recognized process authority for those products.  They have testing labs, testing retorts, food labs at their disposal that can test for things unimaginable.

For those interested in knowing if what you are doing is actually safe or who want to start out knowing what they are doing is safe  with clear cut instructions from a trained individual, please see above. If you plan on giving out canned foods to family and friends, PLEASE SEE ABOVE.

For those who wish to do as they wish, do as you wish.

I am not hear to insult anyone, crush anyone's family traditions, kill dreams, or spread needless fear... I just want to see everyone eat what they make many times. Not die after eating it once..... I have heard all the stories before and sent many products to labs to find that what was being made was not safe and was able to support the growth of pathogens....

Hope this clears things up about guidance for canning and my intentions for spreading food safety knowledge here...

Eugene

[Dominick]

Well said Eugene.  I got that from your first post.  Dominick

[Dominick]

Whew!  I glad that's over with.  Steve-O sorry this post devolved to a few rants.  Back to your salmon.  It sure looks good.  Dominick

[Steve-O]

Dominick, Like I said ... it's all good. 

I showed it to my 14 yr old daughter...she was VERY impressed at the view and post count compared with the other recipe threads  " Wow, Dad! you're famous!"    uuuhhh...yea, a regular legend in my own mind.

My wife and I had a 15 minute conversation discussing this thread partly but more on the safe practices we do when canning. She felt good about it and said that's why we pray over our food. 

she also told me Our neighbor's wife is a Chemist and will not can and then the real scary scenario- her lady friend back in NC ..a longtime farmer, canner,  housewife would do this :

Cook the veggies, relish, chow chow, pickles, whatever and spoon them into the jar, screw on a new lid and ring and flip it over on the counter.  When my wife saw her actually do it - she freaked and called her on it. "we've always done it that way!"  Yikes.

[Alto Mare]

Yo Steve, if your canning is anything as the last I tested, send it over, I'll let you know if they're safe to be consumed. you should still have my address  .

[David Hall]

this thread generated a lot of discussion in my house as well.  its all good and the fish makes it even better.
the only can Im working with right now is a NMEA2000 and although it wont poison me it may well kill me before its done!