Spool and side plate tolerance issue

[pjstevko]

I finally took my Lee-Pro 501 that Fred built for me (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=16893.0) to the lake to practice my casting and it went OK.  Even though there are enough magnets in it to stop a freight train I still got plenty of backlashes so I'll still need plenty of practice. I did discover an issue I'll need to get fixed before I actually fish it.....

While clearing the backlashes the 25# BBG mono would get caught between the spool and side plate.....

Is there anyway to tighten up the clearance?

Would using 30# mono make a difference?

Hopefully you guys tell me an easy fix i can do it myself otherwise it'll have to get sent to the "reel doctor"!

[foakes]

30# may be enough to do it, PJ.

However, if the bearing adjustments can be centered a little more -- and not cause any operation issues -- that would be a better solution.

Although on reels of this kind and strength -- I have never hesitated to use 30 or 40 pound mono.

Best,

Fred

[pjstevko]

30# may be enough to do it, PJ.

However, if the bearing adjustments can be centered a little more -- and not cause any operation issues -- that would be a better solution.

Although on reels of this kind and strength -- I have never hesitated to use 30 or 40 pound mono.

Best,

Fred

Fred how would one go about adjusting the bearings?

[Shark Hunter]

There is a screwdriver slot on your bearing caps with those plates. Righty tighty, lefty loosey.

[pjstevko]

There is a screwdriver slot on your bearing caps with those plates. Righty tighty, lefty loosey.

This

[Shark Hunter]

Yes,
That is an adjustment screw.
You can center the spool moving both of them.
There should be one on the other side as well.
If you turn that non handle side screw out, you will see it creates movement in the spool from left to right.

[pjstevko]

Yes,
That is an adjustment screw.
You can center the spool moving both of them.
There should be one on the other side as well.
If you turn that non handle side screw out, you will see it creates movement in the spool from left to right.

I'll try tightening both screws tomorrow....

Anything I should be aware of while doing this?

[Shark Hunter]

Tightening them will not center the spool.
You loosen one side and tighten the other to center it.
If you want to move it left, you loosen that side and then tighten the right.
This is for centering the spool in the frame.
I would use a coin or something similar to avoid scratching or gouging the adjustment screws.
If you tighten it too much, the spool will bind or you can damage the bearings.
If the spool looks centered and has no left to right play. This will not help with your problem.

[eguinn]

 A lot of things come to mind when I see this happening. The 1st thing to check is to make sure you have the proper spool for this reel, they take a Newell P, G, or no letter spool series spool, graphite or aluminum, it doen't matter, you can use either the Penn spools or the Newell spools for Penn reels but they are different from the P series spool, the ends where they go into the bearings are shorter & they sit right up against the shoulder on the end of the P series spool. If you use the Penn or Newell spools for Penn reel you will need to find or make some little 1/16th thick washers to use on the ends of the spools, without these washers the ends of the spool hit  or bottom out in the bottom of the bearing cup. 2nd these sideplates should use Newell bearing cups, you need 2 different bearing cups. The bearing cup for the right sideplate uses a colored split ring, there are 5 different colors & they are all a different thickness, they are cut square at the bottom of the groove so that the colored split ring can compress & sit all the way down in the groove. The left side bearing cup has a groove cut in it for a O ring, the groove should have a radius at the bottom of the groove, they are made this way so that the O ring doesn't git torn up, when you get the 2 bearing cups sitting right next to each other it's real easy to see the difference, if you can find the older style bearing cups you will find that they where counterbored deeper than the newer style bearing cups, this was done to allow the person servicing or using the reel to shim the bearings in or out as need to help with centering issues or rubbing issues, sometimes you will hear a rubbing noise & that is usually the spool rubbing on the end of the pinion gear. Now understand that you can move the bearings in or out as much as 1/16th of an inch on the right side by using shims & different colored split rings, on the left side you can move the bearing in or out by putting a shim under the bearing in the bearing cup, usually I use anywhere from .005 to .015 thick shims to get what I need. When you go to center up the spool you will notice the little rim on the edge of the spool,ideally you want this to sit in the center of your sideplate ring on both sides & still have about .005 end to end play in the spool. Put your right side bearing cup in & screw it all the way down tight, at the same time back off your left side bearing let's say 2 turns & see what you get for centering with everything adjusted back up snugly. You want to do all the end to end play adjusting with the left side bearing cup. If the spool is sitting off to the left then you need to take the right side bearing cup out & put in a thinner split ring, if it's sitting off to the right then you need a thicker split ring ,also check to make sure you bearing is not sitting up above your bearing cup, if it is change or take out or check to see if you need a thinner shim or if you need all the shims you might have under the bearing, those split washers come in 5 different colors, each color is supposed to be a different thickness, they should run from about .040 thick to about .075 thick. You may need to do this process 2 or 3 times to get it right. 1 thing I should have mentioned earlier is make sure you don't have too much clearence between your spool & sideplate ring, you only want to be able to get a .005 to .007 thick shim or feeler gage in between your spool & sideplate ring, maybe you need a different sideplate ring, I seen people grind those things out because they have a problem like you have & don't want to take the time to fix it right. I know I've talked about some things that can cause this but you need to learn to go thru the reel & check these things, it really isn't a big deal to learn how to do this, you just have to get your hands dirty & see what's really happening with that reel, maybe go to the guy who built this reel for you & sit & watch what he does & pick his brain a little bit. That's kinda how I learned, once you've seen & opened up 1 of the reels it becomes they become easier to work on. Any questions ask & i'll help you out where I can.

[cbar45]

Center the spool as mentioned, then go from there.

You'll know it's centered when the spool's shoulder is equi-distant to the side-plates at each end.

If the line is still getting caught, it's likely due to the tolerances between that particular combination of spool, frame, and side-plates.

Perhaps swap to a thicker diameter--yet slicker casting--line such as Sufix Tritanium?

Once upon a time I owned almost the exact same combo, minus the purple Tib spool, (mine was stock Penn).

It handled 25 lb. Ande and Maxima no problem, though 30lb. was what I used most.

[Alto Mare]

30# may be enough to do it, PJ.

However, if the bearing adjustments can be centered a little more -- and not cause any operation issues -- that would be a better solution.

Although on reels of this kind and strength -- I have never hesitated to use 30 or 40 pound mono.

Best,

Fred

I've personally never had problem using 20#, but as Fred mentioned 30# would cure it.
The magnets could be adjusted, you could add another row on top, as long as you have clearance. On some of my reels I have 3 rows, very easy, they set themselves in.
About centering the spool, I'll try to keep it simple, too much details would make some pull their hair out. It is very simple.
We are dealing with many custom parts., on some reels and especially the new custom Jigmaster plates, after centering the spool, in some cases you will experience the spool rubbing on the right side.
If the eccentric lever doesn't go in and out of gear smoothly, it is a clear indication the pinion is hitting the bearing, it doesn't take much.
This is usually a result from using washer type spacers as these on a spool with ware on the shoulder or simply too short:

personally I don't like to use those, the reason, they'll bring the bearing closer to the pinion.
You could still make it work, by sanding the bottom fo the pinion on some emery cloth, I prefer to use these:

These Delrin dots are .60mm in thickness and work like a charm. Freespool should also increase by 10-15 seconds.
Just the other day I had a conversation with Tom, my suggestion was for him to add 1mm on the nipple in the bearing, I believe that would help:

By the way, Tom's bearing cups are spot on, this is a result of other custom parts.
A little fine tuning is all it takes.


Sal

[pjstevko]

Wow thanks for all the replies.......

I'm gonna try centering the spool and move up to 30# mono first and see if that fixes the issue...otherwise I'm not sure I'm ready to tear this thing all apart,  I've never worked on a reel before......

[foakes]

It just takes a little finesse and patience to center the spool, PJ -- if that is the issue.

And like Daron said, just use a penny or the soft aluminum round end of a Penn wrench --  making sure not to jam it too tight -- as one side adjusts inward -- the opposite side must be already adjusted outward so no damage occurs to the bearings.

This is a reel made up of many components from various companies -- over the years.

However, don't sweat anything -- you can just send it back to me -- and I will adjust it as needed -- then see if 30# is still needed, or not -- then spool it up if necessary.

There are many possibilities for this issue -- but using the old method of diagnosis based on the simplest solutions first -- will fix it.

If the spool is right for the plates and frame -- it is a high percentage bet, that either adjusting, mono, Sal's dots, or Tom's bearing adjusters will cure it.

Just need to do it the right way, since you have now tried it.  Plus, there is room for another row of mags to help with your BL issue, if desired.

Thanks for the help, gentlemen!

Stay tuned --

Best,

Fred

[mo65]

   Proper centering of the spool will help keep line from getting behind it...but solve those backlash issues...and the whole "line getting caught" issue will go away. With all those magnets, and proper bearing end play, she should be pretty controllable. Also make sure you are using sufficient casting weight. If all this still leaves you picking out a bird's nest, try stiffening up the bearing lube. Grease instead of oil will slow her down too. I've spent a lifetime mastering the backlash...I'm one of the best out there...

[pjstevko]

Well I finally got around to adjusting the two bearing screws and now there is very little/no side to side movement of the spool between the side plates. Hopefully that will take care of the issue......

I'm take it back down to the lake in a few days to see if I still have an issue and I'll let you know how it goes.....

Thanks for all your help!

Pj