Line Lay

[wfjord]

I don't see how the shims would affect the line lay. The drive gear washer shown on the schematic is part# RD 0041; a shim should be the same i.d., or you could just try adding a second regular washer. I found some that happened to fit at a local tackle shop. I have ordered various Shimano parts from Southwestern Parts & Service in Dallas or someone on the forum may have some.

Re: Line lay, make sure the shaft and oscillating slider are attached properly onto the oscillating gear knob and lubed when you put it back together and see if there's any impovement.

[handi2]

If this reel is new it was assembled with 1 or 2 wrong parts. That's about it

I could see oscillation problems if it was 3 or 4 years old. Easy to fix.

This reel just isn't right.

Is there a problem or any movement in the bail arm when you are using it? The bail arm has to stay solid in place to keep the line lay the same.

[Scattergun2570]

If this reel is new it was assembled with 1 or 2 wrong parts. That's about it

I could see oscillation problems if it was 3 or 4 years old. Easy to fix.

This reel just isn't right.

Is there a problem or any movement in the bail arm when you are using it? The bail arm has to stay solid in place to keep the line lay the same.

The reel is probably 15 yrs old...used maybe once and was put away..I did not see any abnormal movement in Bail arm,everything seems quite normal when I spin the handle,no spool wobble,no noise,just real bad line lay.

[handi2]

Where is the nub on the oscillating gear??

[Scattergun2570]

Where is the nub on the oscillating gear??

[Scattergun2570]

Where is the nub on the oscillating gear??

s

So what do you think?

[foakes]

This is a common problem when spooling braid or heavy mono onto some reels such as Shimanos, Stellas, and VanStaals.

The shims around the oscillator gear area have nothing to do with the line lay issue.

If this were on my bench, first I would get a good, clear schematic.  Install any shims depicted in the diagram  around the oscillator gear area.  Fasten all screws properly.

Next, make sure the under spool spacer washers are proper according to the schematic

Now, remove the braid onto an empty supply line spool.

Next, mount the loose reel spool using a bolt, washers, and nuts onto an electric drill.

Using another person, and a glove to keep back pressure for proper line lay -- spool the braid onto the spool.  First thing to do is build up about a 1/4" hump at mid spool -- then continue to even out the line until it is 1/4" below the front lip -- and is even all of the way across.

Now, as the reel is used -- the line will remain even, instead of "hour-glassing".

I wouldn't over-think the mechanicals -- everything is likely OK -- except if screws or washers are loose, out of order, missing, or added.

In my opinion, it is an easy fix that some reels require -- even higher end spinners when modern lines are used.

I use one of (4) power line metering machines -- but most folks do not have access to one.  I have two dedicated to conventionals -- and two for spinners.  So I can do this single handed -- without help.

Just my opinions based on a bit of experience with these reels.

Best,

Fred

[basto]

a no-cost fix would be to strip the line all off in the yard down to the knot (spool off the reel) and the hand wind 30 yards or so  in the middle of the spool, taking care to rotate the spool every few wraps because ergonomically you will wind at a bit of slant. you are in effect building up a détente  / arbor so the line lay will be proud over the center, which at the end should make it flush (or at least better). then put spool on and wind up under tension

This is excellent advice! I have done this on spinners that wind line on with a gutter in the centre of the spool and it works.
Basto

[Scattergun2570]

If this reel is new it was assembled with 1 or 2 wrong parts. That's about it

I could see oscillation problems if it was 3 or 4 years old. Easy to fix.

This reel just isn't right.

Is there a problem or any movement in the bail arm when you are using it? The bail arm has to stay solid in place to keep the line lay the same.

So what do you think is going on?

[oc1]

It is weird how different sizes and types of line change the line lay. Thin line should lay a little closer to the lip while thicker line should lay closer to the base.  But, the difference in diameter between the thickest and thinnest line you are likely to use is only about 0.3 mm.  Line texture must have a lot to do with it too.

There was a lot of squawking about line lay when spectra braid first came out.  The spinner manufacturer's seemed to come up with a compromise between what works best for mono and spectra.

Fred's method should fix it.
-steve

[Alto Mare]

I couldn't find the schematic for your model 4000FA, I'm guessing this one is similar, if not, disregard my comment below.

I don't think your problem is related to shims, the line is traveling to the top and bottom part of the spool as it should, I think it's doing it faster that it should. Besides, you have tried many different lines with no luck.
Check part #15467 on the under side and make sure the grove looks good.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=u3bBrHNO&id=111D55FDE7519E6595455C0F4B10FB33529D3887&thid=OIP.u3bBrHNOcBOTBLgMw2UI1gHaFg&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Ffishshop.shimano.com%2Fmedia%2Ffishing%2FSAC%2Fexploded_views%2FSH4000FE_v1_m56577569830817870.jpg&exph=1179&expw=1586&q=shimano+sahara+4000+fa+schematics&simid=607998325457686400&selectedindex=9&ajaxhist=0&pivotparams=insightsToken%3Dccid_6rCUB8RY*mid_D58822F67A313FF60ADBF3C73FDD5A264C28F2BE*simid_607986428471083073*thid_OIP.6rCUB8RYJtNIS9qWZxPX7AHaFg&iss=VSI


philaroman  gave you the first answer and that is the one that makes the most sense to me, but you never know.

Sal

[Scattergun2570]

I couldn't find the schematic for your model 4000FA, I'm guessing this one is similar, if not, disregard my comment below.

I don't think your problem is related to shims, the line is traveling to the top and bottom part of the spool as it should, I think it's doing it faster that it should. Besides, you have tried many different lines with no luck.
Check part #15467 on the under side and make sure the grove looks good.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=u3bBrHNO&id=111D55FDE7519E6595455C0F4B10FB33529D3887&thid=OIP.u3bBrHNOcBOTBLgMw2UI1gHaFg&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Ffishshop.shimano.com%2Fmedia%2Ffishing%2FSAC%2Fexploded_views%2FSH4000FE_v1_m56577569830817870.jpg&exph=1179&expw=1586&q=shimano+sahara+4000+fa+schematics&simid=607998325457686400&selectedindex=9&ajaxhist=0&pivotparams=insightsToken%3Dccid_6rCUB8RY*mid_D58822F67A313FF60ADBF3C73FDD5A264C28F2BE*simid_607986428471083073*thid_OIP.6rCUB8RYJtNIS9qWZxPX7AHaFg&iss=VSI


philaroman  gave you the first answer and that is the one that makes the most sense to me, but you never know.

Sal

I don't believe it has anything to do with shims either..I wanted to see what handi2 had to say as well.

[Alto Mare]

I couldn't find the schematic for your model 4000FA, I'm guessing this one is similar, if not, disregard my comment below.

I don't think your problem is related to shims, the line is traveling to the top and bottom part of the spool as it should, I think it's doing it faster that it should. Besides, you have tried many different lines with no luck.
Check part #15467 on the under side and make sure the grove looks good.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=u3bBrHNO&id=111D55FDE7519E6595455C0F4B10FB33529D3887&thid=OIP.u3bBrHNOcBOTBLgMw2UI1gHaFg&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Ffishshop.shimano.com%2Fmedia%2Ffishing%2FSAC%2Fexploded_views%2FSH4000FE_v1_m56577569830817870.jpg&exph=1179&expw=1586&q=shimano+sahara+4000+fa+schematics&simid=607998325457686400&selectedindex=9&ajaxhist=0&pivotparams=insightsToken%3Dccid_6rCUB8RY*mid_D58822F67A313FF60ADBF3C73FDD5A264C28F2BE*simid_607986428471083073*thid_OIP.6rCUB8RYJtNIS9qWZxPX7AHaFg&iss=VSI


philaroman  gave you the first answer and that is the one that makes the most sense to me, but you never know.

Sal

I don't believe it has anything to do with shims either..I wanted to see what handi2 had to say as well.

All the answers above are good ones, from Fred,  Keith and everyone else, we're not sure what it is yet.
We do know something is happening at midpoint with the oscillation mechanism.
Along with philaroman, I believe your issue is related to the oscillation mechanism, there are a few parts you need to check there.
Sal

[handi2]

I just finished a box of Shimano's this afternoon. 2 of them were the Sahara 3000's.

Both of them, and everyone I run across, had the loose screw that attaches the spool shaft to the oscillating slider. Use Loctite on this screw. No need to take the screw out when servicing.

Both reels had no problem with line lay but he is using light braid. 20lb. Power Pro Maxquatro. Its 2lb diameter.

There were 2 shims on the main gear only under the bearing. As typical. No shims on top of the pinion gear. Or better said on top of the roller clutch inner tube before the rotor goes on.

These were fairly new reels. Your is 15 years old. I think thats the problem. 15 years ago many reels didnt like braided line.

[Scattergun2570]

Well this one had 3 under the main gear bearing that was mangled,,,maybe they installed too many from the factory which caused the mangling?