Vinegar mix or Simple Green? Which is safer?

[1badf350]

I cant believe how much I have learned from you guys over the last few months since I joined! I have another question.
When soaking parts to remove corrosion, which would you say is safer or results in less plating loss? I jave used vinegar before, but sometimes I feel like it takes away too much finish. I have never used Simple Green, but i do have it. Is one safer than the other or does it make no difference? Thanks!

[mo65]

   I'm not savy on the simple green as I've never used it. I have heard folks say if the parts are left in vinegar too long they can be damaged. I can't say, as I only soak parts a few minutes and the corrosion starts to melt away fast. I do know this: The condition of plated parts after cleaning is more dependent on their initial condition than the cleaning compound. How do they say it..."ya can't make silk out of a sow's ear."

[foakes]

Hi Chris --

You made a good point about how much you have learned.

If a serious person pays attention to most of the topics on our site for a period of 6 months, practices and rebuilds their own reels, acquires reels to repair and restore, asks questions, learns and listens -- they will know as much or more than a professional reel tech could teach them in 10 years.

This is an accelerated, advanced course in reel repair, service, and restoration.

I use vinegar to halt and arrest the verdigris effect (salt corrosion).

I use simple green to clean metal parts and sometimes a quick bath in the SG for bakelite or anodized parts (not plastic).

I use HD purple degreaser for metal parts (chrome, brass, bronze, copper, steel, SS) that are heavily encrusted with dried on grease, etc.

I use DAWN dish soap for an overnight soak of greasy parts that the above products may damage.

I use Mineral Spirits for an effective soak overnight of old crusty parts.  It is gentle and safer than other solvents.

And for a quick, effective cleaning of any metal parts (steel, brass, bronze, copper, steel, SS, pot metal alloys, etc,) I use straight Lacquer Thinner.  It is quick, effective, evaporates, fairly inexpensive for a gallon, and reusable a few times if filtered with a fine mesh such as a gold coffeemaker filter.

All of these should be used carefully, well ventilated with the exception of the gentle Dawn.

And I also use a sonic cleaner to speed up the process as appropriate and safe.  I use small class containers to isolate the various solutions within the SS US cleaner tank filled with water.

Anytime you use Lacquer, or Mineral Spirits -- dispose of any rags outside -- either spread out to air dry -- or in a closed metal container.  Otherwise, spontaneous combustion is a sure possibility.

Safety, common sense, and care are important -- for others as well as yourself -- and for the parts of a reel.

Best,

Fred

[thorhammer]

simple green 50/50 to degrease first, then vinegar for corrosion. the vinegar wont work if the corrosion is not exposed to it. simple green is not good for aluminum, especially raw aluminum...ask me how i know...it can actually electroplate crap from other metals in the bath...giving you a purple Daiwa Sealine instead of dark grey..so i hear, lol.

[1badf350]

You guys crack me up. LOL. Thanks Fred! Will copy and print your detailed response! I am starting to keep a "restoration binder" at home for quick reference.

[mo65]

I am starting to keep a "restoration binder" at home for quick reference.

   That is a very good idea! Might even be something all of us could use.

[Tightlines667]

I use simple green, and sonic cleaner for all parts first.  Sometimes I soak in diluted SG overnight, but an extended soak can sometimes damage certain plastics, or certain plated parts.  I reserve the vinegar (or in extreme cases diluted HCL) for cleaning up corosion on metal parts, and have noticed you meed to careful about soaking dissimilar metals together (especially for extended periods).  I use mineral spirits and sonic cleaner for bearings.  Brake cleaner is used for a final clean of bearings, and drag discs (on lever drags).  I have also used purple degreaser for more heavily encrusted parts, but it shouod be used with caution, just like using diluted HCL.  Alot of folks just use vinegar for cleaning everything.  Certain materials don't react well to alot of these cleaning solutions.  The soft rubber used on some Shimano reel handles for instance are only cleaned with dish soap, cause the others will actually cause the rubber yo break down and become tacky or goey.  Vinegar works wonders on bronze or copper parts.  I think diluted simple green is probably the safest cleaner (aside from regular dish soap) to use on mixed materials soaking together.  Though the ORCA folks would likely swear to vinegar as being the safest/best so around cleaning agent.  I do have 99% alcohol, to use on parts such as ceramic bearings where I want them completely dry, prior to lubing.  I also have some MEK which could be used as a super strong solvent in extreme cases, like I might use HCL in extreme cases of heavy corrosion.  99% of your cleaning needs can be met with vinegar and simple green though.

John

[thorhammer]

also, don't use a mouthwash  / solo cup for soaking bearings in goof - off (which works great), lighter fluid etc. It melts through the cup, permanently leaving a big white dot on your nice, lint-free surgical towels you use to open reels on. So I heard.

[Tightlines667]

also, don't use a mouthwash  / solo cup for soaking bearings in goof - off (which works great), lighter fluid etc. It melts through the cup, permanently leaving a big white dot on your nice, lint-free surgical towels you use to open reels on. So I heard.

And don't sore your acetone/ATF penetrant mixture in a plastic squirt bottle.  Acetone eats plastic.

[Alto Mare]

I will say that lacquer thinner has no place for me, I have tried it a while back and will never again, no matter how good it cleans parts. That stuff is rancid.
Vinegar will also eat up your parts especially aluminum, it has to do with how bad the part is and how long you soak it.
I'm having good results with both, Simple Green and white distilled vinegar, but I do not soak the parts and forget about them.
I now have 2 containers of Simple Green, one for greased gears and one for the rest of the parts on that reel, the bucket that takes the grease gears will get tossed once a month, the other could go up to 3 months.

John, if the ss takes other colors while soaking in simple green, a little vinegar on a rag will bring it back with very little effort.

By the way, I do not delude mine.


Sal

[johndtuttle]

Simple Corrosion-X and a tooth brush belongs in this conversation for non-epic amounts of corrosion. Its an excellent corrosion remover/penetrant and safe on anything I've gotten it on including knobs iirc (but don't hold me to this one).

The beauty of this approach is it doesn't take any special set up to get the target soaking. Just squirt some on the part in situ with the stuff (ie like a bearing stuck in its hole) and let some time pass. Work it or scrub it a bit, then add a little more and be patient etc. Lots of small problem areas can be handled this way (screws, bearings, AR bearing or any surface) and you are leaving a protecting film behind. Corrosion-X also makes a corrosion remover that might be interesting.

Works great too on old grease with a tooth brush. Stuff melts off.

There's a difference between what you need for your own reel "one off" and what the pros find more time efficient while working on multiple reels at all times.

If you are a guy working on your own reels start with the basic safe stuff and avoid the toxic/dangerous brews.

[Midway Tommy]

You guys crack me up. LOL. Thanks Fred! Will copy and print your detailed response! I am starting to keep a "restoration binder" at home for quick reference.

Check out ORCA for a great Reel Restoration book at a reasonable price that caters toward antique & collectible reels. There are a lot of great tips in there from some of the most knowledgeable collectors in the world. Restoration and general user reel service can differ greatly in some aspects and it's a great resource to have at arm's length.

As a side note, I only use vinegar to loosen corrosion when I can't get threaded or friction/spring fit pieces apart. I don't trust the reaction on some plated surfaces.  

[foakes]

Simple Corrosion-X and a tooth brush belongs in this conversation for non-epic amounts of corrosion. Its an excellent corrosion remover/penetrant and safe on anything I've gotten it on including knobs iirc (but don't hold me to this one).

The beauty of this approach is it doesn't take any special set up to get the target soaking. Just squirt some on the part in situ with the stuff (ie like a bearing stuck in its hole) and let some time pass. Work it, then add a little more and be patient etc. Lots of small problem areas can be handled this way (screws, bearings, or any surface). Corrosion-X also makes a corrosion remover that might be interesting.

There's a difference between what you need for your own "one off" and what the pros find more time efficient while working on multiple reels at all times.

John is absolutely right about Cx -- works very well.

And also about the approach one may take if doing an assembly line service operation as opposed to restoring old reels one at a time for complete restorations -- to be displayed and perhaps not fished so much, if at all.

Another good product is a gallon of WD40.  This is a lousy lubricant, but a good soaking cleaner for nearly any part of a reel -- along with a toothbrush.

Best,

Fred

[thorhammer]

I will say that lacquer thinner has no place for me, I have tried it a while back and will never again, no matter how good it cleans parts. That stuff is rancid.
Vinegar will also eat up your parts especially aluminum, it has to do with how bad the part is and how long you soak it.
I'm having good results with both, Simple Green and white distilled vinegar, but I do not soak the parts and forget about them.
I now have 2 containers of Simple Green, one for greased gears and one for the rest of the parts on that reel, the bucket that takes the grease gears will get tossed once a month, the other could go up to 3 months.

John, if the ss takes other colors while soaking in simple green, a little vinegar on a rag will bring it back with very little effort.

By the way, I do not delude mine.


yeah, the chromed brass and SS wiped clean. The aluminum...another story.


Sal

[oc1]

I don't like to soak anything for long, and never overnight.  Given a little time, the green or purple cleaners and the weak acids can cause weird reactions with dissimilar metals or plastics.  They're unpredictable.  Also, the green and purple cleaners have a lot of exotic ingredients so they're creepy to use.  

Weak acid, a sonic cleaner, and maybe a tooth brush will get encrusted stuff off in a few minutes.  Naphtha, a sonic cleaner, maybe a tooth brush will get the grease gunk off in a few minutes.  It's always a one-off job for me and it's nice to go from start to finish in one sitting.
-steve