5000c questions from an absolute noob

[JasonGotaProblem]

Do modern baitcasters have the same aversion to thin braid, or is that a side effect of using reels that predate braid?

[steelfish]

I was given a box of baitcasters by a wonderful ohana member (Keith)

Keith is a Bad Boy, he should be laughing hard seeing how he just sent you straight to another rabbit hole, I hope you have big pockets because Abu ambassadeur reels tend to multiply like rabbits and tinkering them could be as /more expensive than mod a jigmaster/113h reel.
Geez Keith, shame on you 

with that said, Abu Garcia is the only brand I can considering myself a Fanboy, I have some ambassadeur 5500c, 6500c3, 6000c, 7000c, Record 60, Toro beast 60, Abu Revo Sx, Abu Ultra Max XL  and an Abu Cardinal Spinning reel, non of my ambassadeur reels have big upgrades other than carbontex drags and power handles, all of them are used on saltwater (what else) without problems .

I love to use my record 60 and abu 6500c3 for inshore fishing but I normally use them for shore fishing, both reels are paired with 9ft fenwick HMX rods 10-30lb 1-3oz (with 1.5ft extended reargrip to make it 10.5ft), with 50# braid line and top leaders of 20# mono

welcome to the addiction

[handi2]

I sent him some nice low profile reels too. They all have Carbontex drags and ceramic hybrid bearings.

They have magnetic cast control. I think he would have better luck learning to cast these reels.

Keith

[JasonGotaProblem]

So this is drifting beyond reel-specific questions, but if spinners have solved the line digging problem decades ago via cross wrapping (done best via worm oscillation), why hasn't this been solved on baitcasters... With the same technique? I feel like if it seems so blindingly obvious, there's gotta be something really basic I'm missing, and I assume that's the case.

[steelfish]

I sent him some nice low profile reels too. They all have Carbontex drags and ceramic hybrid bearings.
They have magnetic cast control. I think he would have better luck learning to cast these reels.
Keith

I know you are a great guy and a Gentleman Keith, thanks for your help

lowprofiles are great reels too but round abu reels have something to make them a thing of love or hate.



@ Jason, if you put your line with some tension maybe 5# or so, you wont have any problem with line digging into self on a nice fish, abu round reels are just too big to try those 15# or 20# braid on them, you will fill them with 1000yds of that, its just not a finesse reel, I have some lowprofiles 100 and 200 size reels with 20# braid on them and love them for light shore fishing on the beach and never had a problem with the line digging on itself.

if you want to feel secure on your line not digging into itselft you can always install half of the line on the spool manually on a x-pattern and then fill the rest with the reel levelwind system but spooling the line on a lowprofile from the line coming from another reel on which you can tell the line is pulled from at least 5# (measured with a drag scale) is the best way to avoid that problem.

[jurelometer]

So this is drifting beyond reel-specific questions, but if spinners have solved the line digging problem decades ago via cross wrapping (done best via worm oscillation), why hasn't this been solved on baitcasters... With the same technique? I feel like if it seems so blindingly obvious, there's gotta be something really basic I'm missing, and I assume that's the case.

They have. Levelwinds wrap with a cross wrap.   It is a pain to rip/pause/wind a big popper on a conventional without a levelwind.  Much more likely to get a backlash on the next cast.  It is tricky and more work to manage a wide crosswrap when hand packing  a conventional without a levelwind, so we tend to just lay one coil closer to the last.  Works fine too, if the line is tight the whole time.

There is one problem that a revolving spool (conventional) still has though.  If the line does manage to dig in a bit,  the spool will rapidly decelerate and then accelerate in the middle of a cast, making a backlash more likely. Doesn't happen often with a decent levelwind.


-J.

[tincanary]

Do modern baitcasters have the same aversion to thin braid, or is that a side effect of using reels that predate braid?

They do to an extent.  It isn't much that the reels aren't capable, it's that the spools tend to be too deep for thin line in general.  I run 8lb Berkley x9 on one of my finesse reels and it's of a similar diameter to 2lb mono.  Granted, I'm only running 50yd on the spool, but backlashes are super easy to remove.  I can strip the spool, wind it back in, and fish if need be.  Been there done that lol.  While it isn't a lot of line, it's plenty for the creeks I fish in.

[oc1]

After a rough start with braid, low-pro reels were advertising themselves as "braid friendly".  From what I could see, that meant a rubber sleeve on the arbor to prevent slipage and a shallower spool.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I'm not gonna lie, I've lost a bit of the excitement that I started with, now that I've played with them a bit. That's partially because the learning process hasnt gone as smooth as I'd hoped, but also because some of my initial assumptions were just wrong. I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, but I'm not gonna expect that I'll be full on team sideways spool by this weekend.

My lazy side is wondering what's the point of learning something new that's kinda tricky when spinning reels are much more user friendly, and even experienced folks still backlash hard sometimes. But I'm inclined to believe it's like a manual transmission, which i learned to drove AFTER automatic (I grew up in a different era, we've established this). Yeah when I was learning it seemed like just extra steps with room for error, but as I got more experience the extra steps are just muscle memory and what's left is far more precise control over my cars behavior, and also possessing a skill that lets me jump into any Porsche on the lot and drive away (getting past the gate is a different story) which an automatic only driver can't say. The analogy to fishing reels is pretty clear.

The irony is that the fastest clutch runners in the world can't shift faster than a modern performance automatic tranny, and many modern supercars don't even have a clutch as an option anymore (Ferrari Lamborghini etc don't get me started on teslas), where 30 years ago there was no comparison. But I still stubbornly clutch onto my clutch because that's what I'm comfortable and familiar with, even if I initially learned on something easier. The analogy to fishing reels hasnt quite caught up yet there, but...

[steelfish]

My lazy side is wondering what's the point of learning something new that's kinda tricky when spinning reels are much more user friendly, and even experienced folks still backlash hard sometimes. But I'm inclined to believe it's like a manual transmission.............

Its a learning process, I had the same questioning but see it as something to learn about fishing and to have another tool to fish, baitcaster, low profiles reels have their place and moment, they are fun to use (just like a standard transmission car), they make the fishing time more enjoyable (this is subjective to each person) and supposedly you can aim the lure and put it on the exact spot you want to cast it 3x better than with a spinning reel, but in a windy day you're done with your baitcasting reel !! 
thats when your spinning reel comes to play

there are other big differences between spinning reels and casting reels in different scenarios but that belong to a diff thread, for light shore fishing or freshwater fishing is nice to know how to use both styles and have both gears on hand.

[handi2]

I'm not gonna lie, I've lost a bit of the excitement that I started with, now that I've played with them a bit. That's partially because the learning process hasnt gone as smooth as I'd hoped, but also because some of my initial assumptions were just wrong. I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, but I'm not gonna expect that I'll be full on team sideways spool by this weekend.

My lazy side is wondering what's the point of learning something new that's kinda tricky when spinning reels are much more user friendly, and even experienced folks still backlash hard sometimes. But I'm inclined to believe it's like a manual transmission, which i learned to drove AFTER automatic (I grew up in a different era, we've established this). Yeah when I was learning it seemed like just extra steps with room for error, but as I got more experience the extra steps are just muscle memory and what's left is far more precise control over my cars behavior, and also possessing a skill that lets me jump into any Porsche on the lot and drive away (getting past the gate is a different story) which an automatic only driver can't say. The analogy to fishing reels is pretty clear.

The irony is that the fastest clutch runners in the world can't shift faster than a modern performance automatic tranny, and many modern supercars don't even have a clutch as an option anymore (Ferrari Lamborghini etc don't get me started on teslas), where 30 years ago there was no comparison. But I still stubbornly clutch onto my clutch because that's what I'm comfortable and familiar with, even if I initially learned on something easier. The analogy to fishing reels hasnt quite caught up yet there, but...

That's why I don't use them..!

[Hardy Boy]

Once you get the hang of it its no big deal. I had only ever used them for drift fishing for salmon/ steelhead or casting spoons but once you can fish with one it transfers to other fisheries. I had no issues casting irons or live bait for fly lining, the first time, with other larger reels because of the thumb memory of casting the abu. Keep at it and as suggested learn with mon on the 5000C either 12 or 14 lb.


Cheers:

Todd

[oc1]

There is a reason people used to call spinners "coffee grinders".  But, you will never understand until you are proficient with both conventional reels and old hand cranked coffee grinders.

[jurelometer]

There is a reason people used to call spinners "coffee grinders".  But, you will never understand until you are proficient with both conventional reels and old hand cranked coffee grinders.

And Eggbeaters, and training wheels 

It is worth it to get familiar with both to make an informed decision.   OTOH, a spinner is not that bad for shore casting to smaller inshore species.

-J

[steelfish]

[....... a spinner is not that bad for shore casting to smaller inshore species.

-J

people wanted to take baitcasting fishing into the next step of UL fishing, there is a "new" wave of casting UL lures with Baitcasting called BFS (bait finesse system) using baitcasting reels with special shallow, drilled out/ultralight, spools and light-action rods to throw lures weighing less than approximately 5-7g (3/16 oz to ¼ oz and below).

just to make fishing more entertaining, the goal is to cast lures with UL rods, sometimes using light fly blanks with baitcasting reels, catching a fish is just the cherry on the cake.

but to get into that you have to know how to cast lures with a casting reel without problem, then you can go down to cast light lures with small lowprofile reels or small old school reels (right Steve?) and just then, you can check to get into BFS.

I like to use small spinning reel from light shore fishing, but becomes boring when fish are not present, casting light lures with a small lowprofile reel make the day a bit less boring when there is not "catching" just "fishing".