My thoughts on todays spinners

[mbg60]

My spinning reel arsenal has always consisted of top of the line saltwater reels from every era starting in the early 70's.  The Penn reels were considered the best in the 70's and 80's and their price was consistent for a top of the line reel.  Into the 90's the gold and black Spinfisher SS was well built and continued as a bullet proof reel that you could easily service on your own.  All of a sudden Shimano and Daiwa got into the game and smooth, fast, and long casting reels popped up to challenge Penn, some at a high price.  Durability wasn't their strong point.  In the late 90's the Super Spinners began popping up that had ALL the top tier features included and servicing became easily available.  Shimano and Daiwa began to dominate this market while Penn SS reels purchased in the 80's were still in use by hardcore fishermen. Shimano and Daiwa kept selling reels while no newer Penn's were competing with them until the Torque line was introduced.  The Torque, while solidly constructed and self serviceable, lacked the refinement of Shimano and Daiwa.
Planned obsolescence has become the norm while my Torque and Torque II Penn's will still be functioning long after I'm gone.  Whatever is the current line of the Stella reels will be in my line up because of ease of use and availability of service for recently acquired models.  Fisherman lose again because a solid reel like the Penn Torque has become, unplanned, obsolete.

[boon]

The, Oh that model is obsolete. A 2 year old $600 Twin Power Shimano should not be "obsolete ".

Wait a second, what?

Yes, Shimano isn't as good as supporting previous models as other brands, but either you bought some really, really old new-old-stock or the person who told you it was obsolete was mistaken.
I just warrantied a spool on a nearly 10 year old Shimano that was discontinued 5 years ago, no problems.

[Reeltyme]

Wait a second, what?

Yes, Shimano isn't as good as supporting previous models as other brands, but either you bought some really, really old new-old-stock or the person who told you it was obsolete was mistaken.
I just warrantied a spool on a nearly 10 year old Shimano that was discontinued 5 years ago, no problems.

[/quote]

Actually I didn't buy the reel, I was servicing it for a customer, and the gentleman at Shimano was and older sounding gentleman that again, sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I have and continue to service a lot of Shimano reels in my area, they are just not a quality made reel.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I think that 10 year old reel getting warrantied was a matter of luck. I dont think shimano lies when they say they can't warranty something because parts aren't available. I think they continue to warranty stuff, til they run out of that part. Then it's tough luck for everyone after.

[Keta]

That is how I see it to Jason.
However, I worked for one of the top people in Shimano USA and he told me that the world wide corpret philosophy is modeled on the auto industry in the '60s.  Come out with a new model every year and convince their customers that "new and improved" is better.... it rarely is. 

[philaroman]

I was VERY happy with Shimano when Japan-made Stradics & Curados
were <$100, RETAIL!!!  ...been a while 

That is how I see it to Jason.
However, I worked for one of the top people in Shimano USA and he told me that the world wide corpret philosophy is modeled on the auto industry in the '60s.  Come out with a new model every year and convince their customers that "new and improved" is better.... it rarely is. 

way older strategy, unless you mean 1860's 
catalog sewing machines & suck-brooms

[Keta]

Same thinking. 

I have 50 year old Penn reels I can still get parts for, unfortunatly not the 349/349H, and a 8 year old $400 Shimano that parts are imposable to get.

[foakes]

Quality is more than just producing a good product.

Consider two companies that have developed successful customer-driven quality programs: L.L. Bean, Inc. and Caterpillar Tractor Company. Although these two companies are in different businesses—L.L. Bean sells outdoor apparel and equipment primarily through mail-order while Caterpillar manufactures earth-moving equipment, diesel engines, and materials-handling devices, which it sells through dealers—both enjoy an enviable reputation for high quality.

Some 96.7% of 3,000 customers L.L. Bean recently surveyed said that quality is the attribute they like most about the company. Bean executes a customer-driven quality program by:

Conducting regular customer satisfaction surveys and sample group interviews to track customer and noncustomer perceptions of the quality of its own and its competitors' products and services.

Tracking on its computer all customer inquiries and complaints and updating the file daily.

Guaranteeing all its products to be 100% satisfactory and providing a full cash refund, if requested, on any returns.

Asking customers to fill out a short, coded questionnaire and explain their reasons for returning the merchandise.

Performing extensive field tests on any new outdoor equipment before listing it in the company's catalogs.

Even stocking extra buttons for most of the apparel items carried years ago, just in case a customer needs one.

Despite recent financial setbacks, Caterpillar continues to be fully committed to sticking with its quality program, which includes:
Conducting two customer satisfaction surveys following each purchase, one after 300 hours of product use and the second after 500 hours of use.

Maintaining a centrally managed list of product problems as identified by customers from around the world.

Analyzing warranty and service reports submitted by dealers, as part of a product improvement program.

Asking dealers to conduct a quality audit as soon as the products are received and to attribute defects to either assembly errors or shipping damages.

Guaranteeing 48—hour delivery of any part to any customer in the world.

Responsibility for quality cannot rest exclusively with the production department. Marketers must also be active in contributing to perceptions of quality. Marketers have been too passive in managing quality. Successful businesses of today will use marketing techniques to plan, design, and implement quality strategies that stretch beyond the factory floor.

Most fishing reel marketing departments today are relying on planned obsolescence, shiny decals and lots of plastics, and cheap labor from Asia. 

Penn seems to be the exception to this rule.  Parts are available, reels are somewhat standardized over the years, and they take care of their customers.

Good luck trying to get a plastic part that failed after a few fishing trips — on a Chinese or Malaysian Marvel Spinning Reel — just toss it in the trash can.

Cheap screws that fasten maybe one or two times into graphite or plastic frames, gears made of soft alloys that seldom hold up to a serious fish, parts that just snap in two.

Quality is a lot more than just producing a product — it is a two-way street based on the proper and durable materials and engineering — coupled with good customer service and support after the sale.

If you give the customer the over the top service that they do not expect —  at a fair price point — they will remain loyal.

These are some of the reasons why I have chosen to specialize in servicing, repairing, and restoring only about (5) brands of Vintage Spinning Reels.  Plus the fact that I do have massive stocks of parts for the vintage DAM Quicks, Mitchells, Penns, Cardinals, and ABU's.

Best, Fred

[Reeltyme]

Fred,,, Amen.

[boon]

I may be an outlier here but I'd rather fish with a 2023 Daiwa Saltiga 4000, in the full knowledge that in say 15 years I will be retiring it due to being unable to replace some or another part, than, well literally any other reel you can name.

[Barishi]

I think it just boils down to modern reels having higher build quality, consistency and performance, whereas older reels have higher durability, simplicity and servicability.

I would say its part manufacturer strategy and part design that contribute to this. Everyone is familiar with the "planned obsolescence" mindset that leads to old models being discontinued and parts being harder to find. Also, newer reels use more fragile parts that, while strong enough, won't last as long as the metal parts of older reels.

On the design side, older reels tend to be simpler so they are easier to service, but some of these simplicity measures to me might not make sense in today's context. For instance, few vintage spinners have line roller bushings/bearings. As Alan Hawk warns people who want to fish older reels like the Penn SS, they have to make sure the line rollers spin freely lest braid cuts into it, damaging the braid and the roller.

To add on, while the materials of older reels may be better, the design may not suit modern expectations of what a reel can do. Old designs like the anti reverse engaging the main gear and worm drive give vintage reels a huge disadvantage in terms of size of fish they can catch compared to a modern reel.

If I remember correctly, accounting for inflation, a modern shimano spheros 6000 would be around the same price as a DAM Finessa or 330/330N back in the day. I would bet my house that the spheros would outperform the older reel in every aspect. Of course, after 20 years or so, the DAM would maintain its performance while the spheros would need replacement parts.

I also find the "pot metal parts" argument a bit weird. I mean, to me seems like a lot of people here like the 1980s era Daiwa reels which used pot metal main gears, and the pot metal and gear design in a modern BG is an improvement from that. Then again, its not like I was around in the 80s or 90s, so I everything I mention here might not be fair.

I wonder what you old folks will think of this statement: "Older conventionals have aged better than older spinning reels"

[Keta]

"New And Improved" often isn't improved.

[MarkT]

Ah, but the new reels look good, don't have handle slop due to the ARB, feel smooth when you turn the handle and are advertised with high drag numbers... so you buy it. Mission accomplished!

[Finest Kind]

Penn, LL Bean, and Caterpillar. They have to be my three favorite companies. I have never been disappointed  in any of my Penn reels, any of the stuff I get from Bean or my 3126 Cat. I guess it is about a person's temperament and mindset. Owning a reel that I know I won't be able to get parts for in a few years would never work for me. Totally unacceptable. Don't care how smooth or modern it is.

[philaroman]

I guess it is about a person's temperament and mindset...

well, yeah...  pretty good bet that in this bunch everyone ENJOYS working on reels
imagine[with diffuculty  ] someone who DOES NOT , yet enjoys their high-paying job
few extra hours of work they like, allows 'em to replace reels without ever looking inside, 
much less worrying about premature obsolescence & parts availability