My thoughts on todays spinners

[Gfish]

Is there any way to keep water out of ball bearings in fishing reels, without a detailed service after each fishing trip? Even the ones with seals, including on the ball bearings?

Agree with Tommy and Mark's last posts. I love Oilite Bushings!

Thanks for the Allen Hawk reference on the Penn BattleIII, Mark. Looks like a "battle"is on and continuing with lower cost, heavy duty spinners that have some good features, if not the best materials. The Fin-Nor LT 100, then the new Daiwa BG's and now the Penn BattleIII. Who will make the next—even better—spinner with that lower price point?

[jurelometer]

Manufacturers can save some money buy using nylon bushings, and in areas that are prone to water penetration and corrosion, nylon might last longer than a non-maintained ball bearing.

I would guess that ball bearings are so cheap now, that going to oil impregnated sintered bronze plain bearings (AKA Oilite bushings), doesn't save much if any cost, especially considering that plain bearings need a specific interference fit and have to be pressed in, vs dropping a ball bearing into a pocket that is around the right size. And as we all have noted, the customer has been conditioned to equate bearing count to quality.

Oilites are self lubricating, and are relatively low friction.  Once you fully grease up a ball bearing, it is going to have more resistance than an oilite. However, these plain bearings are more subject to wear than ball bearings when the shaft is not well aligned.  A longer plain bearing spreads out the load better and can help keep the shaft aligned.  That is why it is a bit tricky to fit a plain bearing at the base of a conventional star drag handle shaft (not much axial space for a long bearing, and potentially some levering going on when winding) but IMHO, it is doable and preferred if the shaft is properly supported at the other end. And a one-way bearing doesn't really count as support.
 
Ball bearings and one-way bearings- blech!  But I t is easier to give the customer what they are asking for than to educate them on what they actually need.

Beware of getting what you ask for 

-J

[Gfish]

I think what happened was for other spots in the reel they forst downgraded to nylon bushings in those spots. But those sucked, so the upgrade was to go to ball bearings.

Not a spinner but my bantam 100 is running bushings not bearings, and I kinda like it that way. It still spins free enough for me to get a ratnest if I'm distracted.

I replaced the handle-side nylon bushing on mine with a ball bearing. The spool already had ball bearings when I got it. The free-spin-ability seemed to increase slightly...? Or, it was my imagination based on what I thought would happen, especially after the difficulty and expense of acquiring that size ball bearing.
As long as the nylon bushings are right(not pitted or deformed) they'd be preferable to me—-no corrosion to worry about!

[boon]

An interesting update on the Shimano I just posted pictures of that I received in the mail. 3 bearings in the reel, the 2 located at each end of the handle are a little "gravely" feeling and main bearing at the end of the pinion is frozen. I prefer my greenie.

Inescapably most modern reels are far more complex than the oldies and therefore prone to failure when misused or improperly maintained.

If your sole metric for a reel is "tolerant of abuse and then easily repaired" then yes, the old ones are considerably better by virtue of their simplicity.

Comparing a modern high-end spinner with anything more than even 10 years old borders on laughable. It's like trying to compare a Tesla with a Fordson Tractor, then declaring the Fordson is better overall because it's more easily repaired. My 2c anyway.

[Reeltyme]

Just saying the Fordson is still going. My point.

[boon]

Just saying the Fordson is still going. My point.

But is it better quality?

[Midway Tommy]

Just saying the Fordson is still going. My point.

But is it better quality?

If it lasts longer with less repairs and does the job adequately, I would say yes it's is better quality.     

[johndtuttle]

Fwiw I couldn't agree more that bushings are terrific and Penn uses them in the conventional reels to great effect ie bushings better than bearings in the body supporting the handle on conventional reels.

And (rubber) sealed bearings are amazing, surviving bottom of the ocean sorts of corrosion pressures for months and once cleaned and re-lubed working as new....but they make a reel a tiny bit stiffer and smoothness at the point of sale is a powerful selling point.

Its like judging the Surgeon by the scar left by a surface incision. The healing has more to do with intangibles the patient's dermis possesses rather than a measure of what the quality of the work inside is like. Apparently superficial impressions are fundamental to human nature...who knew? Shimano knows this lesson.

[Reeltyme]

I don't want this thread to become a "I'm right and you're wrong " thing. These are opinions mixed with a few facts. The point I'm trying to make is as stated in the beginning, the reels they produce today are buttery smooth, light weight and flashy looking. Not to mention the high cost. I think we all agree they will never last as long as the reels from years ago. There's something about driving down the road, floating down the River, shooting at game and catching that lunker, all while doing it with a classic! Of course our world today is easier and faster, that doesn't mean it's better. I'll fish with my classics.

[Cuttyhunker]

I'll buy the new stuff for evaluation as soon as I wear out my Penn 700, if I live long enough.

[johndtuttle]

I don't want this thread to become a "I'm right and you're wrong " thing. These are opinions mixed with a few facts. The point I'm trying to make is as stated in the beginning, the reels they produce today are buttery smooth, light weight and flashy looking. Not to mention the high cost. I think we all agree they will never last as long as the reels from years ago. There's something about driving down the road, floating down the River, shooting at game and catching that lunker, all while doing it with a classic! Of course our world today is easier and faster, that doesn't mean it's better. I'll fish with my classics.

Couldn't agree more!

Fishing is a game. None of us wet a line to prevent starvation, although, there are those among us who are real pros at servicing reels.

Use whatever floats your boat!

Sometime take a look at some of "Alan Hawk's" reviews of the super spinners ie the Okuma Makaira Spinner is the strongest spinning reel in the world and a marvel of stainless steel machining technology etc. Point being there is plenty to admire out there, plenty of middle of the road choices and a mountain of Chinese junk!

As long as you are out there distracted from the cares of the world or putting a smile on a wee-one's face you are doing it right, imo! See, even a place for a Barbie rod!


Best regards, John

[Paul Roberts]

I appreciate both old and new reels, and each have their place. I'm an angler first, reel/tackle enthusiast... somewhere further down the line. When I go fishing I choose tackle to suit. If my old, even very old, reels will do the job -commensurate with my skills at handling them- I'll be using them. I really enjoy them.

Below is my beloved A&F200/6 (Langley 830). It has a slow retrieve rate but is right at home for cold water bass fishing. Next pic is of my Bronson-Coxe 95C, a sweet little direct-drive casting reel that works just fine for finesse fishing. Both are nearly no-brainer Go-To reels for me under those somewhat limited circumstances.

And there are things that my old reels can't do, or do as well, so I'll opt for the new technology. Reels have come a long way, for many good reasons along that way. In some cases, an old reel can be akin to... going 'flintlock'. The maintenance required to make, and keep, an old direct-drive casting reel up to snuff for some serious fishing is not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most, judging from the many ill-fated attempts I see on YouTube. And, I have no interest in bringing a knife to a gun fight; Such as bringing, even a high quality, perfectly maintained, DD casting reel into the pads and slop for Frogging, Flipping, or Punching. That kind of fishing requires speed and power, is rough on tackle, and is simply... chaotic enough already. Here I've been opting for something more modern: my 1980's ABU UltraMags. 👍

[Pierce]

Is there any way to keep water out of ball bearings in fishing reels, without a detailed service after each fishing trip? Even the ones with seals, including on the ball bearings?

Agree with Tommy and Mark's last posts. I love Oilite Bushings!

Thanks for the Allen Hawk reference on the Penn BattleIII, Mark. Looks like a "battle"is on and continuing with lower cost, heavy duty spinners that have some good features, if not the best materials. The Fin-Nor LT 100, then the new Daiwa BG's and now the Penn BattleIII. Who will make the next—even better—spinner with that lower price point?

Agreed, went in to my tackle store last month. Still pick up Lethal LT100. But today bling in tackles are sometimes irrestable, I still keen in getting a Slammer IV for shore jigging lol......