New budget BFS build

[JasonGotaProblem]

I've been itching to build a better ultralight baitcast rod. I wanted something to throw small (1/8oz-ish) lures.

This started as a $35 factory rod. 5' long 2-6# line 1/32-1/4oz lure rating. It seems about as fast taper as a rod this light can get. I strongly suspect these started life as factory seconds of a much fancier blank.

I used 1 Fuji LC12M  1 LYAG8SL 1 LAG7 1 LAG6 and 3 LAG5
Dark gray size A wraps. Nothing decorative. That may change but I'm going for performance.

No butt cap yet. Working on deciding if i want a more normal cap or another champagne cork.

[steelfish]

Jason, IMO a 12LC doesnt look good on a UL rod, it surely add unneeded weight to a pretty light blank.

if you want to keep the line from touching the blank there are other than might work better on your rod, BTW, I have just few of discontinued Fuji Alconite BNMVAG high Stand guides the main use for them was as striper guide (only were made in 3 sizes) that guide will work better with that blank, these guides are pretty light the wire is pretty thin.
I dont recall where I got them but they are not available anymore.
I will check how many I have and which sizes (I just bought 4-6 guides), I think I got two different sizes,

I'll send you few

in the picture they look like the LC guide with higher frame but the wire is pretty thin, its like a fuji LN guide with super high frame

[JasonGotaProblem]

Those are interesting. It annoys me that fuji really doesn't have much for a light tall option.

It casts pretty well. I was throwing a sub. 0.25oz lure a good 60' or more and I definitely see room for technique improvement.

[happyhooker]

Did you have a specific guide sizing & spacing "plan" in mind?

Frank

[JasonGotaProblem]

Did you have a specific guide sizing & spacing "plan" in mind?

Frank

God I changed my guide layout about 78 times during this process. Including removing some already wrapped guides as I changed my mind mid build. But I'm glad because I really did explore a lot of options before settling here.

[steelfish]

checking them again I see their wire is not that "thin" as I recalled but I will send them out to you anyway, pretty sure you will know what to do with them 

they dont look to be saltwater worthy guides, read somewhere the big market for them was on the feeder rods in UK

[JasonGotaProblem]

checking them again I see their wire is not that "thin" as I recalled but I will send them out to you anyway, pretty sure you will know what to do with them 

they dont look to be saltwater worthy guides, read somewhere the big market for them was on the feeder rods in UK

Those are cool looking. I feel like they got released before their time. I'd absolutely use that on a light surf rod.

[happyhooker]

I asked about your proposed guide selection/pattern, because the stripper guides depicted look so much taller than I am use to seeing.  Yes, the old time casting rods kept the guides close to the blank, but even the newer setups have only raised the butt guide a little.  For example, looking at Mudhole's CRB guide kits, I didn't see anything with a stripper guide quite so tall as seen above.  Just curious, and I realize there are many ways to "skin a cat".

Frank

[JasonGotaProblem]

I asked about your proposed guide selection/pattern, because the stripper guides depicted look so much taller than I am use to seeing.  Yes, the old time casting rods kept the guides close to the blank, but even the newer setups have only raised the butt guide a little.  For example, looking at Mudhole's CRB guide kits, I didn't see anything with a stripper guide quite so tall as seen above.  Just curious, and I realize there are many ways to "skin a cat".

Frank

Admittedly I don't think many others are doing it this way. Doesn't mean I'm right. But also doesn't mean I'm wrong.

This is just my opinion I have no empirical data to back me up.

I think baitcasters benefit from a reduction train though it need not be nearly as dramatic as the ones we use for spinners. This is my first time playing with a tall stripper. But if you look from the reel seat you'll see the first 4 guides are in a line similar to the cone of flight used on fancy spinners using pre-Kseries fuji guides.

Yeah itll still cast ok with a size 7 stripper close to the blank. Especially with a decently heavy lure. And a car built for drag racing doesn't need a turbo to eventually get across the finish line. But getting across the finish line eventually isnt the goal of a drag racer, any more than "still able to cast" is the goal of the rod builder. Both are going for optimization.

If I'm putting in the effort to build a rod for casting, it needs to cast very well. If I'm building it to cast really light lures, then I need to optimize for casting. Merely good enough isnt good enough.

I have nothing negative to say about mudhole. I'm a frequent customer. But their "kits" aren't aimed at the wallet of an experienced rod builder. They are targeting the new rod builder who is used to looking at factory rods. And we all know that factory rods are built with the knowledge that a rod tuned for outstanding performance on the shelf next to a rod that "looks fancy" will stay on the shelf while the fancy looking rod goes home to disappoint the new owner. And really small guides definitely make a baitcaster look fancy.

[steelfish]

Those are cool looking. I feel like they got released before their time. I'd absolutely use that on a light surf rod.

my plan was to use them as well on a long and light salmon rod 3/4oz max lure, change the current 1st two guides for these ones and use the rod for dual purpose and equally being used with an spinning reel or casting reel, but my lack/small time for fishing I try to spend it fishing from a Panga boat not much on the surf 

[jurelometer]

Some thoughts from a guy who has thought a bit about BFS rods, but hasn't built one- so FWIIW:

Regarding a tall first guide - I am also not so sure. Tall first guides make the most sense on spinners or some spiral wrapped conventionals (albeit for different reasons),


1. The line is not pulled off in coils like on a spinner, just a very slight amount of wave as the line unwinds as it is pulled off the spool.  Nothing at all like a spinner with its decreasing "cone" of coils that gets wrestled into large waves, and then small waves.

2. The top of the spool is not far away from the blank, like on a spinner.

3. Your first guide is actually the levelwind.

4. The line path that matters is after the line is released and the tip has finished oscillating.  Ideally, the line does not touch the top or bottom of the levelwind (including any waves)- this should  be the most important. From there it should travel through to the tip without having to change direction.  Considering the minimal loading performance requirements  for this type of rod,  you probably have some latitude in first guide placement.

---------------------------

Some other unrelated thoughts:

5. The reel seat should be light and in proportion to the reel, and the reel seat should be relatively close to the butt.  You don't need the extra handle length for fighting or casting, and you need less counterweight for casting.

6. A BFS guy could tell you, but I suspect that you want a blank that flexes all the way to the reel.  I wouldn't be surprised if you have to cut a bit off the butt of a standard blank to get more of a BFS style action.

7. Finally, these rods are intended to fish in tight quarters, so you don't want the rod any longer than necessary, and you want the guides small and close to the blank (as long as it does not negatively impact performance).  The first time I went bushwhacking with a fly rod, I noticed how much less the small guides would catch in the brush compared to a spinner.  This part may not matter as much if you re not using the rod for stream fishing.

8. I think that looking at the fancier Japanese BFS rods there will be something to glean.  These are very performance sensitive at lighter lure  weights, so I doubt that they will do something sub-optimal to sell the rods.  They just make them extra purdy so they can still charge too much.

Your experiments are always interesting. Looking forward to the results!


-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

Interesting points as always. The tall guide is definitely an experiment. I can't really speak in its defense with any authority til I use it a bit more and make up my mind.

Regarding length of the butt, I dont disagree with anything you say. I likely won't ever throw a 2 hand cast on this. But i likely will put it in the rod holder of my kayak to fish inshore saltwater. I doubt that will be the primary use but it will definitely also be used for that. And those extra few inches take it out of the guaranteed splash zone. That's a big deal.

And agreed about foliage. Thats why i was so excited about a short rod like this. A 5' rod is 10x easier to walk thru the woods with than a 7' rod.

[jurelometer]

A 5' rod is 10x easier to walk thru the woods with than a 7' rod.

We always walk with the tip in front of us- it is sort of the default position, like we are about to make a cast.  But if you hold the rod backwards it is easier to walk through brush with the tip behind you, and if you slip and fall, you re much less likely to break the rod.  Learned this while bushwhacking with a 9 foot fly rod from a steelhead guide who didn't want me breaking his fancy gear

A short rod is a blessing if you are trying to take a shot in one of those brushy streams with a tree branch over your head.

-J

[jgp12000]

Just curious what reel are you matching to this rod,the Abu 4600?
Kastking has one now at a whopping 4.4oz fer $200 though...too much IMO.I rather have an Abu 1500 but they are crazy $$$ big money

KastKing Kestrel Elite Baitcasting Fishing Reel, Magnesium Frame BFS Finesse Baitcaster Fishing Reel, Lightest on Market at only 4.4 Ounces, Easily Cast Lures Down to 1/16 oz, 11+1 Double Shielded BB, 8.4:1 High Speed Gear Ratio https://a.co/d/cS559aU

[jgp12000]

I have never built a rod,but it seems to me if the 1st guide was higher than the levelwind you might get some backlash?