Assistance with 114H Rebuild

[thorhammer]

Those look like the stock Penn Aluminum frames. Being as what you were gifted the reels, I'd say that parts list is def worth going for and the reels will last thirty more years with service. Not sure when I will get back to my shop, but if soon I will check if I have any of those parts. maybe a bearing at least.


John

[Fen]

Fred, thank you for the advice!  I wish I had read it just a bit sooner since I just finished placing my order to Mystic and would have ordered a couple under gear washers.  Fortunately it looks to be in good shape on the first reel.

They are out of bearings so will need to pursue another source.  I think earlier on in this thread someone gave source for bearings but indicated that they are pretty pricey.

Good to know the type of drag and that it is in good shape.  Also good to know the grease to use; will order some.

I replaced the eccentric because on the side you cannot see in the photo above there is an area that is chewed up, probably from a loose lever:



Thanks again for your help!

Fen

[foakes]

If you call Mystic, they can toss one in the shipment —- or just put one in an envelope.

You can either use a CF under gear washer —- or one made of Delrin.

Someone on here will have the bearings..

And I can send you a CF washer if you get stuck.

Best, Fred

[akfish]

You should replace thee main gear whenever you replace the pinion gear. (I know. It's getting expensive...)

[OhReely]

If your going to replace the main gear I suggest a brass with bronze bushing as the minimum, a good used one would be cheaper or good used main/pinion set which are already friendly with one another. Even better would be Penn steel main with bronze bushing with SS pinion, both new if possible. Those   "marine brass" main gears with the delrin bushings are junk.

[Fen]

All, just placed another order with Mystic; I imagine there will be others😊.  I ordered a couple CF under gear washers, two clicker-side bearings with o-rings, Val's universal grease and Reel-X oil.

Unfortunately(or maybe fortunately😊), I placed the order before I read the texts regarding replacing the main gear along with the pinion gear.  If the reel does not function well with the existing main gear I will replace it then. 

Now that I have two clicker-side bearings ordered, my next project is to locate two handle-side bearings.  The lobsterman that left the reels behind may have been a good lobsterman but he was pretty ham-handed when it came to working on reels.  I can see evidence of him trying to work on the bearings and has crushed the bearing race cover and the bearing cup edges in his attempts to repair the reels:





Aside: I soon discovered that the bearing is not easy to remove from the cup, especially when the cup is distorted and corroded.

To remove it I made a little puller from a bulldog paper clip. This clip wire is a very strong spring steel and does not straighten when pulled and pulls from two points so the bearing does not tilt and lock in place like occurs when you pull from just one side. 

To make the little puller I removed the part from the paper clip, pounded the tips flat and then cut the tips to length with end nippers:





I then inserted the tool into the bearing.   The tips spring outward under the bearing and stay in place. In fact, it is difficult to remove the tool once it is placed.  I then put the bearing and cup in a vice that is open just wide enough to engage the cup but not the bearing.  I clipped on some vice grips to the clip and pulled.  One can also use a rolling motion of the vice grip tip to gain leverage:



This shows the underside of the puller with the bearing removed:



Back to the problem at hand.  Here are the dimensions of the bearings I am now seeking:



I would appreciate any kind of lead an a couple of good bearings.

Thanks!
Fen

[foakes]

Real nice invention on that bearing puller, Fen!

Best, Fred

[Gfish]

Good job on the bearing/cup.
I hate those parts. The cup acts as a sump. Maybe the smallest drop of saltwater in a stored reel is enough to start the process. They both should be screw-in cups and serviced after every trip; Drop in solvent, drain, flush, and re-oil. Rather than design them as Penn did, they should have stayed with bushings.

[JasonGotaProblem]

That's brilliant. I may make one. If you already have the bearings out of the cups you can just measure them and get SS bearings of the same dimensions.

I have bearing cups for that senator. But I also have a bad habit of taking so long to send out the stuff I give away that it sometimes eventually gets forgotten. All those concussions in my youth have affected my memory. So I don't wanna promise and not deliver. But if nobody else has them, I can get them to you eventually.

[Fen]

Thanks Fred😊

I thought I would pass along one other thing that might be useful. When I worked in my Dad's bike shop when I was young we used either mineral spirits or lacquer thinner to clean parts with a stubby stencil brush in an oil pan.  It works great to get parts clean but there are downsides, especially to lacquer thinner.

I discovered what I think is a really nice product for cleaning parts: Lucas Extreme Duty Bore Solvent.  It does a great job dissolving the crud on reel parts, has a pleasant odor, is safe to use in a heated ultrasound cleaner and leaves a thin oil-like residue on the part.  It is e pensive but is really great stuff.  Here is a link to Lucas's product page:

https://www.lucasoil.com/product/lucas-extreme-duty-bore-solvent-ultrasonic-gun-cleaner/







It comes in a gallon size for ultrasound machines:



Just a little tidy bit I thought I would pass on. I used it on the 114H parts and really liked the results.

Take care,
Fen

[Fen]

Well, the "R3Z" that is stamped on the bearing gave me some possibilities.  I will try to find a good bearing that is saltwater compatible.  If you guys know of good source for saltwater bearings let me know😊.

Thanks!
Fen

[Fen]

Made contact with Boca Bearings.  It looks like they have the correct size bearing. Any thoughts on stainless vs stainless/ceramic hybrid and shielded or unshielded?

Thanks,
Fen

[steelfish]

smoodrag.com
https://www.smoothdrag.com/

is our in-house bearing and drag washer supplier, if you go with them you dont have to wonder if the bearings are good quality or not

[Fen]

smoodrag.com
https://www.smoothdrag.com/

is our in-house bearing and drag washer supplier, if you go with them you dont have to wonder if the bearings are good quality or not

Well darn, it seems that I need to check the Forum more often.  I was on the phone with Boca Bearing when you left your post.

I ordered two sets of hybrid bearings for the Senators. They were about twice as much as the all stainless bearings for the 114H that I see on Smoothdrag. Putting hybrid bearings on an old Senator may be a bit like putting a spoiler on a '57 Chevy but I will let you know how they work. 

Thanks for your help!
Fen

[steelfish]

the word "hybrid" and "ceramic" sounds pretty attractive in any field, but as far as I understand (I might be wrong and wont be the 1st time) ceramic bearings (full ceramic or hybrid) have better use in fishing reels that are used for casting lures not much for trolling reels like the 114h, for trolling reels nothing better than good quality Abec 5 Stainless steel bearings filled with grease (for marine use).

full ceramic bearings are lighter, smoother, cast better, need no lubrication but are expensive
hybrid ceramic bearings are also lighter than SS bearings, supposedly cast better than SS bearings BUT they do need lube because the rail of the bearing is Stainless steel and will corrode on saltwater.