So...What do we call them?

[Paul Roberts]

Knuckle-buster just isn't right. It assumes the worst. What moniker best and easily identifies this reel type? 

I used "direct-drive" for a while but was corrected on that, it being a term for specific Shakespeare reel designs that turn the levelwind right from the handle without an interim pinion -hence Direct Drive.

So...
"Old Casting Reel" -OCR? Nope, "old' could mean 1970, or 1980, or..., for some.
"Constant Mesh Casting Reel" CMCR? Unwieldy.
"Handle spinning whirly thingy"? HSWT?

I'm at a loss.

What describes a casting reel in which the handle turns, remains meshed, with the gears? We can quickly call the new fangled ones, "Modern" or Modern Freespool and people get it. Old Non-Freespool? ONF? Not quite satisfied. Any other ideas?

[quang tran]

I don't know what to call these reel , I thought your guy should have better word to call

[JasonGotaProblem]

Is it too late for me to question the person who said direct drive only refers to certain Shakespeare models? It kinda feels like the need for a new term stems from that distinction. Which leads me to ask about the certainty of that distinction that seems to be taken for a given.

[Keta]

They have been called knuckle busters for a many decades. Why change?

[Paul Roberts]

Is it too late for me to question the person who said direct drive only refers to certain Shakespeare models? It kinda feels like the need for a new term stems from that distinction. Which leads me to ask about the certainty of that distinction that seems to be taken for a given.

Never too late as far as I'm concerned. I was happy using "DD" as it sufficed in my mind. I guess I'll have to see if I can find the first use of "direct drive". Did Shakespeare coin that term when they introduced their Direct-Drive reels? They may have. I can see it could be confusing, or at least inaccurate, to say all old casting reels are direct-drive.

What most separates a "modern" casting reel from the old reels are, taken together: AR, FS, and Drag (for fish fighting, not ABL). These together are what made modern revolving spool casting reels so easy to use. I guess things went "modern" with the Ambassadeur 5000? Everyone had to follow suit. And the old knuckle-buster was relegated to the flea market.

Ah! How about Revolving Handle Casting Reel? Kindof a mouthful I know.

[Paul Roberts]

OK, at Jason's prompting, I looked into the first usage of "direct drive" referring to fishing reels.

But I first looked into the def of DD in engineering:
-"A direct-drive mechanism is a mechanism design where the force or torque from a prime mover is transmitted directly to the effector device (such as the drive wheels of a vehicle) without involving any intermediate couplings such as a gear train or a belt."

-force applied... "without any gearbox or speed reduction (multiplied gear ratio) present."

So, none of our reels, outside of single action fly reels, are true DD mechanisms!

In the fishing world, DD is not uncommonly used to describe the old knuckle-buster, revolving handle, casting reels. Shakespeare's usage is probably closer to the true definition, at least in terms of an 1894 patent stating: "...the direct drive of the crank handle to the level wind worm gear." However, Shakespeare's "DD" line of reels use a multiplying drive train so technically they are not true DD mechanisms either. Looking at the 1973D schematic shows that the handle is DD to the worm gear, but uses a gear train (one pinion) to move the spool. So, the handle and spool connection is technically not DD.

The Fishing Museum (online) states:
"The very first reels were called winders or winches...they can be further divided into direct drive reels (single action or 1:1) and early multipliers."

So, none of our reels, outside of single action fly reels, are true DD mechanisms.

I was kind of liking "revolving handle casting reels" until I realize... handles revolve on all reels!

Knuckle-buster might just say it best.

I'm not satisfied.

[JasonGotaProblem]

As far as I'm concerned, and yes you can take this to the bank (results vary) a direct drive reel is one without a drag or anti reverse. Turning the handle turns the spool, and the spool turns the handle. Either 1:1 or multiplier. Some reels can have a freespool and still be considered a DD because they don't have a drag or anti reverse. Bam. Defined.

[Maxed Out]

 If the reel has no star drag, but has a freespool lever, then its known as a freespool reel, or direct drive, but anyone thats ever fished such a reel, understands why its also called a knuckle buster

[Paul Roberts]

Turning the handle turns the spool, and the spool turns the handle.

Herein lies the problem... Turning the handle does not directly turn the spool, it turns a gear train -albeit only a two gear train (main gear and a spool pinion. Thus, an engineer would say it's not a DD mechanism. Then there's an additional gear on the main gear that turns another pinion that turns the worm gear. On the Shakes' "DD" reels, as they call them, the main gear shaft attaches directly to the worm gear (see pic), making at least that connection DD. However, a gear train -a pinion- is required to turn the spool too when the handle is turned.

I'm back to square one.

...anyone thats ever fished such a reel, understands why its also called a knuckle buster

That is at least something everyone gets.

How about Constant Mesh Casting Reel? That is at least accurate in engineering terms. Or Bi-Directional Casting Reel.

[Maxed Out]

...ok,simple correction.... its a multiplier direct drive reel...wink  wink

[Maxed Out]

Heres an example of a penn box label, that is for a model with no star drag, and a freespool lever. Penn simply called it a free spool model

[Paul Roberts]

So I asked Google AI: "What term describes a reel in which the handle turns the spool and always remaining meshed with the gears?"

Response:
The term that describes a reel where the handle directly turns the spool and always remains engaged with the gear train is a direct drive reel. These are often referred to as "single-action" reels, particularly in fly fishing, as one complete revolution of the handle typically results in one complete revolution of the spool (a 1:1 gear ratio).
The main characteristics of these reels are:
-Direct engagement: The handle is mechanically linked to the spool through a simple gear system that is always engaged.
-Lack of multiplying gears: Unlike baitcasting or spinning reels which use a gear train to spin the spool multiple times for a single handle crank (e.g., 5.1:1, 6.4:1 gear ratios), single-action reels typically operate on a 1:1 ratio.
-"Knuckle buster" potential: Without a sophisticated drag system or anti-reverse mechanism to allow the spool to turn independently, a fast-running fish can cause the handle to spin rapidly in reverse, potentially striking the angler's knuckles. Anglers often use their palm to apply pressure to the spool rim for drag control.

So, I guess what we have is a Multiple Knuckle Buster! MKB!!!! (Exclamation points could provide ratio.) Dang! It just gets worse!

[quang tran]

Let's call it catfish reel ,I only use these for catfish and most catfisherman prefer them

[Midway Tommy]

Paul, maybe you need to take a deeper dive into the winch aspect. 

[oc1]

Wishing you the best of luck in fixing this mess Paul.  I'll buy into whatever you say.

BTW, anti-reverse and drag are sort of codependent.  It isn't very practical to have one without the other