Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on June 16, 2022, 10:34:25 AMWould it contribute to the discussion at all if I pretend to have my feathers ruffled? If so I can take one for the team.

Not too initially keen on the talk of the younger generations lacking the skills. I'm one of those young folks. But then my posts do a good job demonstrating that there's skills I definitely lack.

Jason - Sure you have the skills and the desire, as do many.  I hope I didn't make this sound generational.  I think Tommy wisely points out what makes the Ohana community special - we are all here because we are who we are and are dedicated to learning, sharing, and appreciation of well made things.  I would "almost" suggest that many of us are fisherman second, which is FINE.     But when you scroll down on the home page to the Forum stats we have around 15K members (of various level of involvement - that is fine - I like that folks find this site and I am cool if they find it helpful but do not feel the need to be heavily involved).  But I am guessing that major manufacturers are not looking to sell 15K units; and to be honest we are probably NOT their target market on many items.  The AT Community is very special, but while it is (IMHO) the Greatest Brain Trust of Fishing Design and Development, I have to think that for the majority of what these businesses are creating we would not fall into their "target sales demographic". = - john

Great topic can't believe I missed it from it's beginning. I'm just south of the o.p.  Penn is King here and only due to cheap price but Shimano is nearly on top. I have also seen quality go down but I think it started back a few years further. I'm not so sure is industry driven or societally driven. No one wants anything be it a cell phone, a car or a reel before they want the next best model. I used to think planned obsolescence in engineering was the fault of companies. But society is now obcessed with trends and trendy. Here it's to have at least 500,000 into a shiny tow vehicle with a color coordinated boat, motor and trailer. Even their shiny polyester sporty clothes matches. And in the rod racks, reels and rods that are color coordinated to match their braid. This year blue, next year orange. Nothing needs to last more than a season when it must be replaced after next ICast for one more added ball bearing and pink. It's all the fault of what passes as fishermen these days.

Quote from: Brewcrafter on June 17, 2022, 01:24:52 AM

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on June 16, 2022, 10:34:25 AMWould it contribute to the discussion at all if I pretend to have my feathers ruffled? If so I can take one for the team.

Not too initially keen on the talk of the younger generations lacking the skills. I'm one of those young folks. But then my posts do a good job demonstrating that there's skills I definitely lack.

Jason - Sure you have the skills and the desire, as do many.  I hope I didn't make this sound generational.  I think Tommy wisely points out what makes the Ohana community special - we are all here because we are who we are and are dedicated to learning, sharing, and appreciation of well made things.  I would "almost" suggest that many of us are fisherman second, which is FINE.     But when you scroll down on the home page to the Forum stats we have around 15K members (of various level of involvement - that is fine - I like that folks find this site and I am cool if they find it helpful but do not feel the need to be heavily involved).  But I am guessing that major manufacturers are not looking to sell 15K units; and to be honest we are probably NOT their target market on many items.  The AT Community is very special, but while it is (IMHO) the Greatest Brain Trust of Fishing Design and Development, I have to think that for the majority of what these businesses are creating we would not fall into their "target sales demographic". = - john

The manufacturers probably have 2-3 target markets in mind. My guess is that there's an entry level market, an upmarket consumer, and a market for users who utilize the products commercially (e.g., charter operations).

There are plenty of people who use a rod and reel combo only 2 or 3 times a year. I don't know that with this light use maintenance is going to be necessary in the absence of something strange happening. It makes sense to have options in the market for these people. If the reel stops working after 3 or 4 years they'll probably just get the newer whizbang and throw the old one in the back of the shed.

But I have found that if you're even a heavy casual fisherman, one skill you're going to need is to maintain your equipment. Durability and readily available replacement parts is probably a non-negotiable for a heavy casual fisherman and the commercial operation. It's just that there are fewer of these users than there are of the 2-3 times a year types.

The advent of braid probably pushed materials science for fishing reels, where there was a lot of benefit in making a smaller, lighter reel which could nonetheless handle line with serious breaking strength. I have a 850SS laying around and it is absolutely mammoth for a spinning reel (I had matched it up with a surf rod). It's naturally cumbersome due to its size and weight, and if you could develop a reel with advanced materials that is smaller and lighter and could handle 65# braid you'd do it - it's just that the materials and engineering necessary to fit that kind of performance into a smaller, lighter reel make the whole affair much more expensive per unit. So the market here seems to have divided into real high end equipment and the lower end, entry level stuff which doesn't tale to repair as well.

Likewise, the upgraded frames for conventionals, and later the machined side plates and eventually the all aluminum higher end small conventional reels arose as the result of trying to push smaller, lighter reels to handle higher drag stresses without torquing the reel or stripping its main gear (or a dozen other things that could go wrong). Once braid becomes the standard, the consumer is going to want a smaller spool and a smaller reel but one which can handle serious stress - it seems to me as a non-engineer that the most direct way out of that problem is stronger, lighter materials which are bound to be more expensive. 
 

For a while my go to reels were Quantum Cabo C series.  Stainless main, titanium bail wire, stainless handle. The parts were incredibly cheap and available at Tackleservice. For example, you could order a new complete rotor for a pts60 for $12. That included the rotor, and the complete bail assembly. Shame it's gone.

well, Im 51yo so, I dont think I can qualify for "younger generation" anymore 

but I like new tech stuff, smooth, strong and reliable but you know what ? cheap cant be part of that same sentence and youg and vintage guys know that already since that apply to Everything in todays world.
so, its just matter to choose your poison:
smooth + strong + cheap = disposable
smooth + strong + expensive = good
smooth + cheap + good = not strong
kind smooth + not strong + cheap = very disposable.
etc, etc

then you have the AT.com reelheads which are the active members that want to make changes to those equations and looking to change "disposable reels" that were smooth and cheap strong but with one or two bad parts to make them "affordable" custom building parts for those reels to save them from the trash can.
this apply to cars, electronics, etc

and yes, I like new stuff but dont like their prices   

Quote from: ourford on January 24, 2023, 12:27:42 PMFor a while my go to reels were Quantum Cabo C series.  Stainless main, titanium bail wire, stainless handle. The parts were incredibly cheap and available at Tackleservice. For example, you could order a new complete rotor for a pts60 for $12. That included the rotor, and the complete bail assembly. Shame it's gone.

The Cabo's are incredible.Yes, they are gone but I use them excusively.
I have an inventory of 100's and 120's with parts and they are the reel for me.
With 60 lbs of drag, You can't beat them for horsing in big fish in a small package compared to a Senator.

Penn did an analysis of the old 740Zs when they reintroduced them and at $250. They were losing money on every reel made.

Despite all of the teeth gnashing and cries of "return the Z series or riot!" and "old school is better than new school" the return was a complete flop with no sales to justify it. People just don't want to pay for that style reel in any meaningful numbers.

Given the quality of materials the Z series reels are $300+ reels that no one wants at that price. A tank with relatively terrible drag performance and slow retrieves.

I'd rather fish a Slammer III as a vastly more capable reel. And I pay double that for a spinning reel to jig and pop over big fish when it costs serious money to get over fish. Its a fraction of what the day on the water costs offshore.

The lack of longevity and performance in sub-$200 reels is due to labor costs....But I'd still say a Battle DX with stainless gears is as tough as they come at that price. Daiwa MQ seems pretty tough as well.

Fact of the matter, inflation over the last 50 years is a thing. Newer spinners are vastly more capable, but you gotta pay for them.

I certainly think the successor of the Shimano Stradic Ci4+ series, the Vanford is very flimsy feeling in comparison to its progenitor.

Hey, even "Alan Hawk" thinks the Penn Battle III is a tough customer.

The guys doesn't know a damn thing about big fish and sometimes jumps through hoops to bash Penn but he likes the Battle III for the coin.

Shimano, Daiwa, Penn all offer many lines of reels to cover all the price points. None are designed, or built, to last forever!

For saltwater applications, I have Shimano Stradic 4k, Saragosa 6k, 10k, TwinPower 14k, Penn Battle 6k, Okuma Makaira 20k.

The Battle was my 1st offshore spinner. Out here in Southern California, they're referred to as coffee grinders... it's not a term of affection!

Quote from: MarkT on July 01, 2023, 12:58:18 AMOut here in Southern California, they're referred to as coffee grinders... it's not a term of affection!

But an improvement from egg beater!

I find if you spend a bit of time researching you can find fantastic modern spinners for good prices, the corossion resistance for one is much improved through new tech.

I think it comes down to what youre after in the sub $200 modern spinners. Different brands have different strengths. For a given size, daiwa has the best line capacity, shimano has the best drags, penn has the best marketing.

I have a Slammer IV. Hardly a "coffee grinder". A little heavy, but very capable offshore reel with excellent drag. For more money you can get the DX with stainless gears.

Quote from: Reeltyme on June 16, 2022, 09:35:16 AMI guess my biggest complaint is ordering parts. I almost never find a schematic for the model I am servicing and end up talking to a rep. to find something that I can substitute. The, Oh that model is obsolete. A 2 year old $600 Twin Power Shimano should not be "obsolete".

I have avoided commenting on this thread because I realy do not like spinners  I use a few for casting light jigs for kokanee though.

The above quote is why I will never recomend or buy another Shimano reel.  I realy like the ones I have but parts are a major PIA and my go to salmon reel (not a spinner)  is in a box due discontinuing the reel and no support.... it was a >$400 MSRP reel.

I have replaced the Curado 401TE with a ABU Alphmar and so far I like it even though it is a "right hand" reel.  I prefer my level wind reels to be LH, all but one of my conventional reels are RH.... and it is a Shimano Ocea Jigger.

Jason,
There are always exceptions when making broad statements.  My son is also one of the exceptions.
He has a college degree (and $0.00 student lown debt) and a trade,  journeyman HVAC.  Lots of "farm kids" know how to work and repair things still.