Benora two speed. Another reel rescued from a pile

Started by Fishgolfman, March 13, 2023, 05:10:51 AM

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oldmanjoe

#30
One though that i had is if you unscrew the handle all the way , you do and can break  the # 52 rod at the thinnest part were ball bearing release is .  That`s provided that the set screw is tight in the button .  Like Tommy said it`s lead pencil fragile . 

I tried to upload the enlarge photo of part number 52 .
 I find thoes bits in kit like this .
https://www.amazon.com/Security-Tamper-Proof-Screwdriver-LIQUIDATION/dp/B00BTKFFAU/ref=asc_df_B00BTKFFAU/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309832851244&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1179
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

Midway Tommy

That's a neat little set, Joe. Thanks for the link! I usually have to end up making mine out of an old cheap #### screwdriver or flattened nail.
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

oldmanjoe

#32
 :)   OK the reel showed up today and i was able to tear into it .   There is some steps that need to be done in order to get this reel apart and to make it easier to reassembly..

  The button has a set screw , straight blade screw driver , micro small !!    It will not come all the way out , it hits the handle nut .    Yes the nut is locked down and still no room .     That hole in the knurling part of the nut is not a oil hole .   It`s meant to be lined up with the button screw , so when the screw is backed out of the button it also passes through the handle nut .    You may be able to loosen the screw enough to get past the flat that is on the # 52 trip rod . the button is threaded to the rod .




I learned as i went on .  you can wait on removal of button and get it later .

 The easiest way to tear down the handle and gear assembly is to remove the 3 screws and remove the gear assembly.     




     Clean the center of the gear , there is screw in there and a spring that put pressure on the trip rod .
 The trip rod has a small slot on the bottom of it , that you can hold it or help unscrew it from the button if necessary.

//alantani.com
This is the flat on the side that the button set screw locks in to .


The drive nut that the handle locks to is next to be removed " left hand thread "   The low speed shaft can be removed from the high speed gear .    The ball detents should fall into there holes making it easier to remove the shaft .

The high speed shaft is held in with a spanner head screw and has a pin tail to lock into a sliding bearing
 




Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

Walter61


Robert Janssen

This is really good stuff. Gotta get myself one of these. So far, it seems like no parts impossible to replicate.

.

JasonGotaProblem

Bet everyone selling one of these on the bay is thrilled that this thread took off
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

Shellbelly

Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 16, 2023, 12:52:53 PMI find thoes bits in kit like this .
Here's a minimalist tool pouch version of what Joe has.  We called those screws "snake eyes".
"Little boy,  you can get glad in the same pants you just got mad in."  (My Momma)
"You shot it boy, you're gonna clean it and eat it".  (My Dad)

oldmanjoe

Quote from: Robert Janssen on March 18, 2023, 09:26:13 AMThis is really good stuff. Gotta get myself one of these. So far, it seems like no parts impossible to replicate.

.
:)   I know that this is right up your ally .    Working on this reel ,is like working on a pocket watch .   I have done  # 4 screws , but this is down to # 1 size .     Or to be correct 2 mm thread . 
         I am not sure if i can cut this on a lath or set up a grinder ?



    I don`t see the need to thread the button to the shaft , i think it can be done with a smooth shaft and set screw .   But the Swiss do it because they can .

The top numbers are the lengths and the bottom numbers are the diameters
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

jurelometer

Nice work Joe!

So the mechanism works as I suggested earlier.

The basic mechanism that fixes the small main gear to to the shaft and uses the outside face of the small main to drive the large main eliminates one of the main problem areas in many two speeds - having the shaft switch drive load from one main to the other.  This is such a simple clean design, albeit with some  tradeoffs.

Not sure how the small main meshes when  re-engaging with the pinion.  It also seems there could be a point where the pinion could spin backward under load during  a shift, unless the anti-reverse acts on the pinion.

.040 inch is pretty skinny.  Assume that in order to make this cut, the part has to be supported on both sides.   Might need to be tempered afterward, too.

-J

Midway Tommy

#39
Well done, Joe! I'm starting to wonder how my stiff clubby old hands and fingers are going to manipulate those minute little parts.  :o   ;D  Does one need to completely remove that button set screw through the hole in the knurled knob before removing the knob?

I'm starting to wish I had a video setup for this disassembly rather than just a camera.  ::)
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

oldmanjoe

#40
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 18, 2023, 06:30:39 PMWell done, Joe! I'm starting to wonder how my stiff clubby old hands and fingers are going to manipulate those minute little parts.  :o   ;D  Does one need to completely remove that button set screw through the hole in the knurled knob before removing the knob?

I'm starting to wish I had a video setup for this disassembly rather than just a camera.  ::)
I will tell you that i am using a big magnifier glass and tweezers and forceps .   that button screw is a little bigger than the eye glasses screws

 I think that you could back the screw out just enough to clear the locking flat  .    I pulled it out because i did not know what to expect .   I was surprised that it was threaded , i was expecting a smooth shaft with a pocket detent  for the set screw .

   Ok looking at it again and playing with it , if you can see all of the screw hole , than you can loosing the set screw with a driver and unscrew the button .     The one i have was half buried .     One turn of the button out and the screw is wide open .    I can see why you can`t lock it up here , i don`t see a critical travel requirement .  The ball detent slot is long enough , that it does not affect the shifting of gears.

The screw can stay in the button  ,Just back it flush with the button side and it will clear the flat lande on the shaft .  One less thing to fool with fat fingers ..
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

oldmanjoe

#41
Quote from: jurelometer on March 18, 2023, 06:09:12 PMNice work Joe!

So the mechanism works as I suggested earlier.

The basic mechanism that fixes the small main gear to to the shaft and uses the outside face of the small main to drive the large main eliminates one of the main problem areas in many two speeds - having the shaft switch drive load from one main to the other.  This is such a simple clean design, albeit with some  tradeoffs.

Not sure how the small main meshes when  re-engaging with the pinion.  It also seems there could be a point where the pinion could spin backward under load during  a shift, unless the anti-reverse acts on the pinion.

.040 inch is pretty skinny.  Assume that in order to make this cut, the part has to be supported on both sides.   Might need to be tempered afterward, too.

-J

       This picture shows the pins and sockets between the 2 gears " drive dogs "  The outer gear "high gear " is always in mesh with pinion , it is free wheeling , and the anti reverse  works with this gear alone .

       Low gear , when in low gear is in direct contact with the pinion .  "I should note that the 2 pinions are tied together 2 difference gear counts  "   Low gear is the driver " tied to the handle "  When you shift into high gear , low gear pulls away from the pinion and now locks up 'Pins and socket " to the high gear , now making it the driver and no longer a free wheeling gear .

   The spring that pushes on the trip rod  makes the gear change snappy .   You can go slow a get the two gears in a neutral state and spin the handle and the spool oscillation will be the only thing working .

   As long as the anti reverse  is  engaged and you do get this in between gears , the rotor will not back up on you .
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

Shellbelly

"Little boy,  you can get glad in the same pants you just got mad in."  (My Momma)
"You shot it boy, you're gonna clean it and eat it".  (My Dad)

oldmanjoe

#43
    I do believe a piece of the trip rod is still in fishgolfman reel , when i see the ball detent sticking up on the shaft , other wise they would fall into the shaft .
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
The power of Observation   , It`s all about the Details ..
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

Fishgolfman

You are probably right on a piece still in. The spring came out easily when I unscrewed the recessed set screw and the ball bearings were inside of shaft. When i played with spring and re inserted did ball bearings pop out. Upon assembly in frame, the re assembly has reel locked in the big gear vs the small gear. Challenge will be to dissemble when i get parts.