Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Come on, you are no fun.

Setting aside me giving J a gentle ribbing, I just think it's funny (perhaps ironic?) that many more traditional anglers regard these modern saltwater baitcasters in the same way. Fiddly, overcomplicated things suitable only for throwing small lures to lake bass from a jon boat, rather than the extremely capable fish-catchers we know them to be.

I find it hard these days to recommend anything other than a saltwater baitcaster to any angler that prefers an overhead reel. The combination of ergonomics (weight, size), ease of use, and performance is hard to beat.

One thing that is difficult is finding a rod that is capable of making use of the full performance on offer while still balancing nicely with such a small, light reel; also the line weight required to do so can mean limited capacity.

Quote from: boon on December 04, 2023, 12:59:28 AMSetting aside me giving J a gentle ribbing, I just think it's funny (perhaps ironic?) that many more traditional anglers regard these modern saltwater baitcasters in the same way. Fiddly, overcomplicated (This is me, up to here) things suitable only for throwing small lures to lake bass from a jon boat, rather than the extremely capable fish-catchers we know them to be.  ( I see no different limit to the casting weight then any other reel)


I find it hard these days to recommend anything other than a saltwater baitcaster to any angler that prefers an overhead reel. The combination of ergonomics (weight, size), ease of use, and performance is hard to beat. (I am not 100% sure on ease of use, but then its what you are used to.  I hate spinning reels which most people find easy to use to prove that point)

One thing that is difficult is finding a rod that is capable of making use of the full performance on offer while still balancing nicely with such a small, light reel; also the line weight required to do so can mean limited capacity.   (I use a variety of rods that I would normally use with a 40 spooled overhead reel as well.   I have in general been reducing the weight of my tackle and do prefer somewhat lighter rods now to what I used 20 Y ago and cast anything from around 50 to 95 gr with the same Tranx 500)

I honestly believe it is just what you are accustomed to.

Some guys pick up a spinning rig go fishing and catch a fish which the would not likely have done with a conventional rig.    I dislike the tackle and have no intention of changing while others swear by it.    My one mate has been struggling for two seasons to change over and still caries 2 rigs, one of each.

Quote from: jurelometer on November 29, 2023, 08:12:41 PMWhich reminds me: I should post another update.  Busted a second part on the Komodo before my latest trip.  Took a new Daiwa Lexa 400 with me, and can now make some comparisons.

Here is what happened: As I finished the annual maintenance, and was rotating the left (palm) side plate into place, it went on crooked.  Hmm... Took the sideplate apart and found that the screw mount pillar had broken off  the sideplate.



I think this is a bit of a design flaw.  The part that holds the levelwind gears (key 63- Palm Sideplate Assembly) also has the tabs that centers and pulls/locks the palm sideplate (key 75) onto the frame. So much of that twisting load is transferred via a thin, tall screw mount post without much in the way of ribs. It levered right off the sideplate, just as you would expect. That sideplate has to come off every time that you need to adjust the cast control.

The sideplate mounting system could have been better thought out.

But Okuma sent a replacement sideplate ($USD 8.00) to me in about a week.  And they sent the whole sideplate assembly instead of just the sideplate that I ordered.  Which turned out to be useful, because the original levelwind idle gear (key 73) was getting pretty wobbly, something I hadn't noticed but should have.  The worm and pawl parts were fine, which I attribute to the non-disengaging levelwind generating less stress.

Strangely enough, on the new assembly there was a nice fresh huge gob of what looked to be Yamamlube blue grease on the idler, which had to come off, since the idler gears turn during the cast. Probably shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, even if the teeth are greasy



BTW, Okuma USA has a nice schematic driven parts ordering system, if you don't need a large volume of parts.

https://www.okumafishingpartsusa.com/

So back into the rotation it goes. But the Daiwa Lexa slipped into the starting lineup on the last trip, so now I can make a bit more of a comparison.

More on that next.

-J

Now comparing the Daiwa Lexa to the Okuma Komodo-

Both were the saltwater-ish 400 size with around 6.3:1 gear and close enough in weight and basic dimensions. Felt about the same when turning the handle when fishing.

A couple areas where the Daiwa was the winner.

1.  Externally adjustable cast control-  no need to take the sideplate off. Couldn't tell any performance difference between the Daiwa magnetic vs Okuma centrifugal systems, but I don't set it very high and am working with lures on the heavier side

2.  Palm sideplate is held in place by a large external screw.  This design looks to be more durable than the one that failed me on the Okuma.

3. A separate drag nut for the star. This is interesting.  The schematics for the Lexa HD, and the photos from the tutorials here show a simple threaded aluminum star, just like the one that failed on my Okuma.  But my  fairly recent Lexa HD has the fancier and more rugged setup that is in the schematic for the T-Wing Lexas, which  looks pretty much like the star designed used on the fancier Shimano Star drag conventionals.




Maybe Daiwa saw the same failure(s) and revised the design?

4.  More rugged design. This may or may not equate to a more durable reel, as the reel is only as strong as it's weakest link.  And rugged is a relative term.  We are talking low profiles here. At least low profiles are tougher than your average spinner

Where the Okuma Komodo shines:

1.  Non-disengaging levelwind.  This is just about it, but it is a biggy.  This is just more durable at higher drag settings.

Unlike the disengaging (in freespool) low profiles like the Lexa and Shimano Tranx, the Komodo's line tension is not constantly changing when dropping a jig in freespool, which is important for slow pitch and similar styles of jigging. When drop jigging, I enjoy using the Komodo, and strongly disliked using the Lexa. There are folk out there that will tell you that these reels are no good for working modern jigs.  I would make an exception for the Komodo.

The non-disengaging levelwind casts plenty fine for me when kept clean and lubed, but I am not tossing anything under 1.5 oz for any distance. But this also seems to be a bit of a minority opinion

In summary, I would rather fish the Okuma over the Daiwa,  but I think that all low profiles are a compromise in terms of durability.  If there was a non-disengaging Lexa, I would probably lean toward the Daiwa. At least until something broke, and the Daiwa parts were expensive and hard to get...

-J

$8 for the complete side plate from Okuma? I shudder to think what that would cost from Daiwa or Shimano!

Quote from: MarkT on January 10, 2024, 05:43:58 AM$8 for the complete side plate from Okuma? I shudder to think what that would cost from Daiwa or Shimano!

All the Okuma parts that I have ordered have been very reasonably priced.  I just wish I didn't have to order so many.

Okuma should be commended on their parts service, cost, and availability.  I even was able to talk to a tech once to get a part that was not on the menu.

It looked to me like the Daiwa Lexa T-wing star assembly might fit on the Komodo, eliminating a failure point, but it was just too expensive (for the parts that I could find), and too much of a PITA to order.  Maybe if I blow up the Lexa and can't get new parts, I will give it a try.

-J

Daiwa has moved to foothill ranch, near me, so I should be able to easily go there. I wonder is they sell parts there? Shimano doesn't but you can take reels in for service. The twin wing is, IMO, a gimmick to make the reel shorter without adding any capabilities beyond that. I still prefer the HD model for in the salt... it has all stainless gears.

Quote from: jurelometer on January 10, 2024, 05:37:27 AMNow comparing the Daiwa Lexa to the Okuma Komodo-

I should note that the rare earth magnets used in magnetic cast controls, such as the Lexa, are extremely sensitive to saltwater corrosion.  if any scratch gets past the thin nickel plating, the magnet is toast.  Centrifugal cast controls, such as in the Komodo, have an advantage in this regard.

-J

Quote from: jurelometer on January 10, 2024, 06:01:35 AM

Quote from: MarkT on January 10, 2024, 05:43:58 AM$8 for the complete side plate from Okuma? I shudder to think what that would cost from Daiwa or Shimano!

All the Okuma parts that I have ordered have been very reasonably priced.  I just wish I didn't have to order so many.

Okuma should be commended on their parts service, cost, and availability.  I even was able to talk to a tech once to get a part that was not on the menu.

It looked to me like the Daiwa Lexa T-wing star assembly might fit on the Komodo, eliminating a failure point, but it was just too expensive (for the parts that I could find), and too much of a PITA to order.  Maybe if I blow up the Lexa and can't get new parts, I will give it a try.

-J

I own one Okuma reel, a reel I have not liked much, despite the fact it has given me fair service.
I suffered a few breakages and a badly balanced spool.    Whenever I complained to the local agent about an issue, I would receive a replacement part(s) by courier all the way from China a week later, free of charge.

That happened twice so I can ditto the excellent service.

So I have a komodo open on my bench right now. Seeing under the hood makes me want one. This thing checks so many boxes. I can see why you like it. It may be my next purchase. But I may get the 273 for inshore/near shore use.

So I just ordered a new right side plate for my komodo 463. On the two smaller sizes the roller clutch is easily removed from the sideplate for service. That was one of the many things I really liked about the reels. But apparently on the 463 it's pressed in. That difference makes no sense to me but oh well. So I assumed it was the same as the smaller sizes and maybe just stuck in place. So I tried to press it out. I ended up pressing out some of the guts while the housing stayed put. I had pushed it back in and the reel was still functional, and the anti reverse still worked. So I took it on my 10hr a few weeks ago. But frankly there's a noticeable increase in winding resistance even without a fish on the other end. I assume it was the bad roller. But you can't order just the roller, and I can't get the original one out. So that used reel now costs $43 (after shipping) than it used to.

Not sure if you can see in the fail pic that the guts are out about 2mm further than they used to be.

Interesting, wonder exactly what got damaged.

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 14, 2024, 03:38:33 PMSo I just ordered a new right side plate for my komodo 463. On the two smaller sizes the roller clutch is easily removed from the sideplate for service. That was one of the many things I really liked about the reels. But apparently on the 463 it's pressed in. That difference makes no sense to me but oh well. So I assumed it was the same as the smaller sizes and maybe just stuck in place. So I tried to press it out. I ended up pressing out some of the guts while the housing stayed put. I had pushed it back in and the reel was still functional, and the anti reverse still worked. So I took it on my 10hr a few weeks ago. But frankly there's a noticeable increase in winding resistance even without a fish on the other end. I assume it was the bad roller. But you can't order just the roller, and I can't get the original one out. So that used reel now costs $43 (after shipping) than it used to.

Not sure if you can see in the fail pic that the guts are out about 2mm further than they used to be.

I had the same thing happen.  I called Okuma parts, and after a long time on hold, I talked to a tech who was able to add just  a new roller clutch "bearing" to my order. Payed about $30 less than you, but that doesn't account for what my time spent sitting on hold was worth.  It is going to be a standard size, so you don't have to go to Okuma for it either.

It was not hard to press out the old clutch housing. Just need a socket or similar tool of the right diameter. This is discussed in the initial post. 

Star drags that don't sleeve the roller clutch have to have a looser clutch to sideplate fit to allow the whole clutch to move so that the drag clamping force can reach the drag washers.  Maybe the smaller models don't have a sleeve, or were originally designed without one. Mebbe those clutches work a bit better if the housing is kept stationary, otherwise not much benefit for a tight fit

When  I put the old clutch parts back together it worked fine.  Those things have such tight tolerances, it seems unlikely that you could feel rolling resistance and still have a clutch that worked.  Check if you can feel that extra resistance turning the handle in freespool, and whether the clutch or dog is stopping backwards motion. Then maybe check to see if some grease got in the clutch.  Saw something shiny in the photo.

If the worm on that reel gets de-lubricated over time, the resistance is quite noticeable. Seems to happen faster on a boat for some reason. I carry a bit of TSI with me.

I was tempted to remove the clutch bearing, but that would require fabricating something to hold the sleeve in place.  As of now, this has moved up to position 999,999,998 on my optional to-do list.

Otherwise, how did you like drop jigging/baiting from a boat with a synchronized levelwind low-profile?

-J

Well too late now.

I was fishing live bait but I'll admit it was nice subcontracting out the levelwind duties to the appropriate components. And I don't think I would enjoy using a non-synchronized levelwind in such a setting. And after doing most my prior offshore stuff with vintage Penns etc, I gotta say I loved the retrieve rate. It's gonna stay in my offshore lineup. But it's gonna be hard to edge out the first Gen accurate 270 magnum  as the default medium size setup.