Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Thank you, I looked at the Jigmaster as well.  I think it, and the Long Beach are very close to what I need, but I think overall a Senator best suites the rods. It may not come across in the photos but the old bamboo rods are really stout; at their base they are nearly an inch in diameter and the rods are 7-1/2 feet long.  I don't think the 114's look out of place on these tree trunks😊.  Also, I will be bottom fishing in an area where there are some large halibut so I would like to have something that could handle something pretty big if I am lucky enough to latch onto one.  Also, I plan on using braided Dacron( I know, I know, it's old school) so I need the added reel capacity of the 114's. Also, I think, any post-frame Senator model will look period correct.

So, after everyone's feedback, I guess my question for the group has now become: Is there a post-frame model Penn Senator reel that really stands out as being an excellent reel?

Thanks!
Fen

Those rods belong in a museum or something, not on a fishing boat. I would not have much confidence in 90 year old bamboo holding up to heavy Dacron on a big fish or hanging a rock on the bottom and having to break your line. Those rods should be used with a linen line.  mono, Dacron and the like weren't invented yet.  Beautiful display pieces but not up to using modern gear

Let me be a little more specific with my question. Is there a Senator model 114 or 114H that has the following characteristics:

      -a post frame(I think it makes the reel look more "period correct")
      -black side plates(not essential but I think black side plates makes it appear like an early model)
      -there is a reasonable number available so that there is a good chance of finding one in nice shape.
      -has parts and upgrades available

I think that about covers it😊

Thanks again!
Fen

If you find one you like(I'd try eBay), go to mysticparts.com there you can see which replacement parts are available. For example, the 114 Senator has spool bushings(they refer to them as "bearings"), but no replacements available. Something like that I or others here may have(though not new). A 114HL would be best to upgrade as far as the 6/0 Senators go.

I have a Senator 114HLW with the 1/2 frame for sale relatively inexpensive. It will be in the "fishing tackle for sale" section, near the bottom of the main page.

Quote from: Swami805 on January 05, 2025, 05:24:15 PMThose rods belong in a museum or something, not on a fishing boat. I would not have much confidence in 90 year old bamboo holding up to heavy Dacron on a big fish or hanging a rock on the bottom and having to break your line. Those rods should be used with a linen line.  mono, Dacron and the like weren't invented yet.  Beautiful display pieces but not up to using modern gear

Swami805, Thank you for your comments, they are much appreciated.  I agree with you, the rods are really fine specimens of the way things used to be. I feel lucky to have found them. I have not done anything yet to clean them up but I believe they will look almost new once I have.

When I first acquired them I checked into their MONETARY value and I was surprised to find out that they they really are not worth much.  One collector said, "most rods like that unfortunately end up on the wall at Red Lobster". It seems that they are not nearly as collectible as bamboo fly rods.  That does not mean that they do not have other, non-monetary value.  To me, and obviously to you too, they have a great deal of value.

I promise you these rods will have underrated line and will not see hard use.  If they are in peril I will cut the line.  I imagine once my sons and I use them a couple times they will be put aside until it is time to pass them on to them.  Hopefully it will bring them memories of another one of Dad's follies and our good times together.

Really do appreciate your thoughts,
Fen

Aside:  I texted this photo  of myself to one of my sons(he is a producer for several fishing shows and he is able to travel around the world to fish🫤).  I thought it was a nice salmon:



 He texted me the below photo of himself with the message, "Dad, we use those for bait".  He is a real jerk sometimes😊



I promise you will will not use the bamboo rods on a Bluefin!

 Your rods have 2 eyelets, which will put the load on those 2 spots on the rods. Halibut rods are generally short and stout all the way to the tip and have several eyes to displace the weight along the entire rod.

 I've caught halibut from 10# and up to over 300#, and would never consider fishing a rod like yours for any size halibut, large or small. "Shore rods" are for pulling sideways on a fish. Dead weight hanging strait down is a whole nother ball game

 

I will give you my thoughts on those sticks , take it with a grain of salt .
  They are trolling sticks . You will not like the way they handle / load up while ground fishing .  Without enough guides you may break the stick , I know this from experience .     
I have reguided bamboo sticks of that nature to ground fish and love them .
  The heavy guided is my grouper stick.

Quote from: Maxed Out on January 05, 2025, 06:46:10 PMYour rods have 2 eyelets, which will put the load on those 2 spots on the rods. Halibut rods are generally short and stout all the way to the tip and have several eyes to displace the weight along the entire rod.

 I've caught halibut from 10# and up to over 300#, and would never consider fishing a rod like yours for any size halibut, large or small. "Shore rods" are for pulling sideways on a fish. Dead weight hanging strait down is a whole nother ball game

 

Well, thank you for your sage advice.  You have saved me some time and money, not to mention a couple of beautifully crafted rods...back in the box they will go but I refuse to let them end up on the wall at Red Lobster!

"When you know better, you do better"

Take care,
Fen

Quote from: oldmanjoe on January 05, 2025, 07:07:25 PMI will give you my thoughts on those sticks , take it with a grain of salt .
  They are trolling sticks . You will not like the way they handle / load up while ground fishing .  Without enough guides you may break the stick , I know this from experience .     
I have reguided bamboo sticks of that nature to ground fish and love them .
  The heavy guided is my grouper stick.

Nice work on the rods!😊

I'm starting to see a pattern here...will put the rods back in the box🫤

Thank you for your "two cents"; it may have saved me many dollars and bit of fishing history.

Take care,
Fen

Hmmm, a few somewhat negative comments. Maybe you better sell all that stuff you bought for a loss while you still can. I'll help you out 'cause I just that kind of a guy; $75🤗.

Thanks Fen, its a good post, very interesting, its hard to match them with a time period reel, hard to get one of the early senators of that time, maybe, an Ocean city Bay City, or an Ocean City 112, but I defiantly would not fish with them, But it would be a pity to hide them in a box, place them on a wall in your house, or man cave area Dominic, the gladiator may have an Ocean City reel,cheers Don.

"Fire Island Heavy Bank Rod" tells you everything you need to know about an appropriate reel.  A 1/0 would look good on it, but I wouldn't fish with them. 

Split bamboo dries out and gets brittle with age.  Keeping the wood oiled will help prevent further degradation but will not bring it back to new condition.

Quote from: Maxed Out on January 05, 2025, 06:46:10 PMI've caught halibut from 10# and up to over 300#, and would never consider fishing a rod like yours for any size halibut, large or small. "Shore rods" are for pulling sideways on a fish. Dead weight hanging strait down is a whole nother ball game

 

The wonderful thing about Forums is that they sometimes force one to think about problems they have not thought about before.  For example, how different are the forces that act on a bank rod from those used for ground fishing?  Here is some food for thought but first let me say that I am in no way offended by any comments made here and I sincerely hope no one will be offended by what I have outlined below.  We are are all here because we have a common interest and enjoy fishing.  So, here are some of my thoughts on this weighty problem:

Diagram A:



So this figure is supposed to be a person viewed from behind fishing from the shore.  He can hold the rod upright(position 1), to the left(position 2) or to the right(position 3). The distances to the fish(D1, D2, and D3 are essentially the same.

Figure B:



This is supposed to be the same bank fisherman from the side. It is intended to show that the rod is held at roughly 90 degrees(+/- 20 degrees) to the fish in all three positions(angle A).

Figure C is intended to show a ground fisherman on a boat from above:



This really is just figure A rotated 90 degrees.  The horizon is now the gunwale and the distance offshore now becomes the depth.

Figure D is supposed to be the same ground fishermen from the side:



The depth of the fish roughly equals the distance of the fish offshore and the angle to the fish is still about 90 degrees +/-20 degrees.

So my conclusion from these drawings is that the angles and distances between bank fishing and ground fishing are very similar but rotated by 90 degrees.

But what about the forces generated by these two fishing methods?

      -what about the weight of the fish?  Well how much does a fish weigh in water?  The answer must be zero or they would sink(since they have the same density as water, the water they displace equals the buoyancy created by the displaced water). So in both bank fishing and ground fishing, regardless of the size of the fish, the weight of the fish is zero.

      -so what causes the force that we feel?  I believe it must be the pulling of the swimming fish and the resistance generated by the shape of the fish as it is pulled through the water.  In this case, certainly the barn door shaped halibut is the king of resistance and therefore I would think that their must be greater forces needed to overcome this resistance in any flatfish fishing.

      -how do the maximum forces generated in bank fishing compare to the maximum forces in ground fishing? They must be the same because the maximum force is limited by the drag on your reel. It seems to me that if you have a reel with 20 pounds of drag that the rod should never "feel" more than twenty pounds of force regardless of whether you are bank fishing or ground fishing.  How can it be otherwise?

So, am I saying that the forces in bank fishing and ground fishing for a large halibut are the same?  Nope.  The angles and the distances are similar and the weight of the fish in water(zero) are the same but a big strong halibut can pull a great deal more than a smaller streamlined fish so you will require more drag force and will likely be in max drag for longer periods of time.

So what the heck am I trying to say here?  Well, I guess I can summarize it like this:

       -I think the distances, angles and the maximum forces our rods experience can be similar between bank and ground fishing. Therefore any rod, whether it is for bank fishing or ground fishing, ought to have more than a tip top and a single line guide like the bamboo rods that I acquired.  This is probably why they are somewhat of a rare find these days.

       -all things considered, if I do ever fish these rods I will fish them with a light drag.

I can feel myself rambling.  I will sign off now but want to finish by saying thanks to all of you that contributed to this thread.



Fen




       
 
     

Quote from: Gfish on January 06, 2025, 12:41:13 AMHmmm, a few somewhat negative comments. Maybe you better sell all that stuff you bought for a loss while you still can. I'll help you out 'cause I just that kind of a guy; $75🤗.

Thanks Gfish, glad to know you've got my back🤣

Quote from: Donnyboat on January 06, 2025, 02:04:37 AMThanks Fen, its a good post, very interesting, its hard to match them with a time period reel, hard to get one of the early senators of that time, maybe, an Ocean city Bay City, or an Ocean City 112, but I defiantly would not fish with them, But it would be a pity to hide them in a box, place them on a wall in your house, or man cave area Dominic, the gladiator may have an Ocean City reel,cheers Don.

Thanks Don, I will check into them.