Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Thought I would share some more of my experiences in powder coating. (previous post:  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9257.0)

I have been scouring the house and shop for anything metal not too heavily bolted down and powder coating it.  This time I grabbed a 2/0 senator that was lying around that had some severe corrosion on the chrome parts.





The plan was to experiment with a fancier multi-coat, muti-color scheme of Lollypop red over light chrome.  This is a more difficult paint scheme as the translucent red will show defects more readily.  

Did a test run with a couple chunks of fresh stock aluminum.  This came out well once I heated up the part before applying the second coat.  Now onto the reel.

Step 1.   Blast off the old chrome down to brass.  Sorry, no pictures of this.  Anything with threads holes had a sacrificial screw wound in, the  spindle was covered with several layers tape,  and then into the sandblasting cabinet for the  garnet (sand) abrasive treatment.  Chrome came right off, which is not what is supposed to happen to chrome plated metals in the sand blaster.  Perhaps because the parts are brass underneath and the plating is not thick?  Normal process for chrome removal before powder coating is to take it to the chrome shop for removal via electrolysis.

Step 2.  Outgas bake at 400 degrees for 30 minutes.  May not have been necessary.  I assumed that some corrosion-x or other oils meant to minimize the chrome damage may have leached into the brass.  After parts cooled, I washed with simple green and air blasted dry.

Step 3. Apply the "light chrome" (chrome colored paint) coat.  Got lazy and did not use sillicone plugs to mask the threaded holes, figuring I could tap them out later, plus I needed at least one screw in each of the reel posts to attach a hanging wire.


The chrome coat came out quite well.  There were a few cosmetic imperfections, but not many, and I wasn't particularly careful in my prep work.  It looked like highly polished silver anodized aluminum.  


Base Coat of light chrome.  Fresh out of the oven.

Step 4. was the lollypop red clear finish coat.   This stuff did not want to stick with my 25KV powder gun unless the part was preheated to around 200 degrees (the previous coat acts as an insulator, so there was not enough static electric charge to get the powder to stick readily).  The rings cooled so quickly that I could only do one at a time.  Aargh...




Foot came out nice- no serious imperfections.  Note the smoothness and gloss of the finish



Finished spool.  Note the high temp tape to keep the paint off the spindle.   Some imperfections in the base coat were fully covered, but still visible because of the translucency of the topcoat

Step 5.   Remove the screws that had been painted on and tap out the holes that had paint on the threads.   This was a pain.  Eventually broke a tap inside one of the posts!  That paint was tough! The paint also bridged up the screw.  A silicone plug would have made a cleaner transition.  


Step 6-  Assemble.   This was straightforward except that I was short a some screws because I "borrowed" a few for sacrificial work, and could not get the enough of paint off, even with acetone a wire brush on my roto-tool.

The second coat made the coating fairly thick, but the spool still cleared the rings until the reel was assembled, now a slight scraping.   I will wait until I get a new post and tighten down all the screws to see if I need to do a bit of strategic sanding on the spool and/or rings


So here is the low-down on powder coating reels as far as I can tell.

1.   Paint selection.  

There are UV resistant and Salt spray ratings in the specs, and it can vary by color.   The highest salt spray rating I have seen is 3000 hours, but there are powders out there that are advertised as Marine grade with a 1000 hour rating.  Most "chrome" colors need a secondary protective coat, which can be a clear.  Urethane and Polyurethane powders are probably the best bet.

2.   Number of coats.  

Powder goes on relatively thick, around .004-.006 inches per coat.  If you take the original chrome off and add a single coat, you are plenty close enough for redoing typical chromed reel parts.   As you add coats, there is more of a risk to have to go in and do a bit of strategic sanding to get a snug fit on the screwed together parts and clearance for moving parts.   Multi coats should be less of a problem for reels like the Pen 7xx spinners, as they originally had a pretty thick coat of paint (esp the greenies), and the tolerances are quite generous.  I think spinners make ideal candidates for powder coating.  

Getting the first coat to stick and cover easily is not a problem, but as you add coats, the quality of the sprayer (need a pro gun with 50 KV or more) and the skill level of the operator needs to go up.   I had a regulator malfunction on a second coat run on a different project which resulted in uneven thickness and was actually able to chip off a little piece off the top coat when re-tapping a hole.  The first coat wasn't going anywhere.

For coating Penn brass reel parts, I would suggest to consider removing all the chrome and go with a single coat.

3. Dealing with threads

According the charts, a tapped 5-40 hole (the common Penn thread size) has only a 60% thread.  Since the ID drill is so small, the relative slop is large.   Since we are talking about brass, these threads need to be protected, and preferably not re-tapped any more than necessary.   This means sacrificial screws for blasting, and silicone plugs for coating.

4.    Considerations regarding heat

Since the process requires heat, any risks associated with exposing the part to heat must be considered-  here are a couple:

Typical powder coating baking temp is 350-400 degrees and the time is 10-15 minutes AFTER the part has come fully up to temp.  This means that any grease or oil that has leached into the metal will leach back out.  Cast metals would be the worst for this, as they are the most porous.  This can be rectified by pre-baking to "outgas", but this adds to the time and cost of the procedure.  

If the part has any pressed in bushing that are oil impregnated, I would check to see if the temps applied would affect the longevity of the bushing.

5.   Durability

As noted before, it would probably be wise to choose a powder that was rated for UV and at least 1000 hours salt spray.  

The powder coat itself is extremely durable.  It has tremendous adhesion. It cannot be easily sandblasted off (more than I can say for the original chrome plating).   And while very hard for paint, it is still paint, and will not be as hard as anodized Al or chrome plating, so scratching from sharp metal objects (e.g. hooks) could be an issue.  I would not expect corrosion to be a big problem unless the scratch was deep enough to get all of the way through the paint.   Urethane and polyurethane powder coats can be affected by  a few strong solvents such as acetone.

I have not trialed powder coated reels in real environments yet, so I am not sure what the real world effects would be over many years, but I am optimistic considering that powder coating is used on boat parts, such as Al towers.  There are a lot of cast AL reels still being made.  I presume these are powder coated as well.


6.   Appearance

The colors, esp multi-layer combos are pretty breathtaking.   The photos of the 2/0 senator do not do it justice.   It really looks like a lollypop coating.  There are also texture choices, and pseudo-anodized looks (gold "anodized" 7xx anyone?)

Powder coating is pretty much a one shot deal, it generally cannot be touched up like liquid paints.   This is one reason why cars are not powder coated.  The old coating has to be removed with nasty solvents, and the paint reapplied from scratch,   This means no fixing scratches and living with any imperfections baked in during original coating (accept it as part of the powder coat aesthetic). When working with fresh stock metal, this has been less of an issue than rehabilitating older parts.  A dedicated powder shop with clean paint areas should be able to do a better job than me.  Getting a smooth surface texture is not too much of a problem, esp on smaller parts like reel frames and spools.


Some typical imperfections - bumped the hanger wire into the powder before baking, and a speck of some sort of contaminant, luckily all hidden by the handle arm

7.   YMMV  

I am not a pro coater.  I am just playing around in the shop.  A pro might have different/better opinions and techniques. But I thought to share what I have learned with folks considering powder coating, so they can ask some pertinent questions.


FREE PARTS:  

I have a set of 4 round posts for a Penn 500 coated in the same lollypop red over light chrome,  all tapped out and ready to install.   If anybody wants them, PM me.  I'd be happy to ship them out.  I have no plans for them.  Just painted them because they were handy, and I wanted some practice.

Great work Jurelometer.  BTW Jor el was superman's father.  You do super work.  Dominick

Jurelometer,

Thans for the detailed info on powder coating, really helps me realize the exact process and type of results. Have you considered the Ceracoat process, is it more expensive than this poweder coat process? Have you considered/tried the Duracoat process as well?

Thanx,

Leo

Those parts came out great!  What brand/type of chrome paint did you use..it actually looks pretty good w/o powder coating.  Seems like removing the chrome from bronze or aluminum parts is actually not too difficult in many cases it can even be done w/a wire brush on a benchtop grinder, rather then having to sandblast it.  I might want to ply around with trying to refurb chrome rings, handle arms, bases, and stars this way (1 coat chrome paint/1 coat clear).  This seems to me like it might be a resonable alternative to sending parts off to be professionally chrromed, powder coated, or anonized.  Also, do you have any experience, recommendations, or thoughts on how to effectively touch up reel rash on anonized aluminum?  Maybe a metal flake aluminum filler, and metal flake paint?  I'm thinking with the high cost of replacement of many if these parts on high end reels, it would be great to find a more cost-effective alternative.  Any thoughts regarding your experience would be appreciated. 

Either way...

Great job!

I never thought about the build up of material. No more line between the spool and rings! I might need to look into this more.
Ron

A couple of years ago I bought a black side plated 113h on ebay or I thought I did.  When i took it apart to service it, I found the inside of the side plates were maroon.  I am not sure if those side plates were painted or powder coated or ?? but they seemed pretty durable and were not scratched before or after my service.  I put the side plates on a purple Tiberon or Accurate frame and gave it to my daughter.  I wish I knew how they got the durable black finish on those side plates, but I don't.  I know I would like to have another set of them.  
TomT

Quote from: Tightlines666 on January 30, 2014, 04:16:23 AM
Those parts came out great!  What brand/type of chrome paint did you use..it actually looks pretty good w/o powder coating.  Seems like removing the chrome from bronze or aluminum parts is actually not too difficult in many cases it can even be done w/a wire brush on a benchtop grinder, rather then having to sandblast it.  I might want to ply around with trying to refurb chrome rings, handle arms, bases, and stars this way (1 coat chrome paint/1 coat clear).  This seems to me like it might be a resonable alternative to sending parts off to be professionally chrromed, powder coated, or anonized.  Also, do you have any experience, recommendations, or thoughts on how to effectively touch up reel rash on anonized aluminum?  Maybe a metal flake aluminum filler, and metal flake paint?  I'm thinking with the high cost of replacement of many if these parts on high end reels, it would be great to find a more cost-effective alternative.  Any thoughts regarding your experience would be appreciated. 

Either way...

Great job!

Thanks Tightlines,


Used prismatic powder lollipop red over light chrome. The light chrome is also a baked on powder.  Chrome plating is supposed to be very hard to remove.  Something to do with brass parts or a thin layer of chrome, seems to make it easier on reels

If you want to powder coat yourself, you need a  powder gun, an oven (not the one you cook your food with :-), and a blaster or something else to prep the parts to be clean and scratch free.  Plus a booth with a metal rack, and then you need to buy the powder. Not very cheap for a couple reels.

Re patching reels- Since the part is charged, the paint sticks to the entire part.  You can mask with heat tape, but since the coat is thick, it leaves a big ridge.   You cannot effectively patch with powder.  Best bet is to re-anodize, or live with it.   I like living with it.  Blue water  fly reels are crazy expensive and subject to boat rash as they are on the bottom corner of the rod.   I use to work hard to avoid the rash, but now I look forward to getting those first scratches, so I can concentrate on enjoying my fishing.   In the end it is just a reel.  Oops.  Probably the wrong site for that particular confession :-) 


I think somebody else mentioned a plastic side plate.  Powder coating only works on metal parts, so this is most likely conventional paint.  There is some sort of process to do "powder coating" on non- metal parts, but I don't know anything about it.

Quote from: LTM on January 30, 2014, 03:56:33 AM
Jurelometer,

Thans for the detailed info on powder coating, really helps me realize the exact process and type of results. Have you considered the Ceracoat process, is it more expensive than this poweder coat process? Have you considered/tried the Duracoat process as well?


Thanx,

Leo

Thank you Leo for the encouragement.   No experience with Cerakote/dura coat.    Looks like they have a high salt spray and Uv ratings.  Might require less equipment, as it looks like it can be applied by the gun owners themselves.   Probably worth looking into as a DYI alternative.

Wow!!! Nice work.

Yes, Awesome work! Thanks for Sharing!

nice work thanks for the detailed right up.

rust-oleum auto stripper works very good to remove powder coating surfaces if you need to strip.I will be moving up to the next level of Guns.

Quote from: broschro on January 30, 2014, 12:41:23 PM
rust-oleum auto stripper works very good to remove powder coating surfaces if you need to strip.I will be moving up to the next level of Guns.

Thanks!  I definitely have a couple redo candidates.
 
It looks like the Rustoleum product uses methylene chloride.   The other option  is benzyl alcohol, much less toxic and easier to dispose.    It looks like SmartStrip from Dumond is available in the USA.  Have you tried this stuff?

Quote from: jurelometer on January 30, 2014, 09:15:01 PM

Quote from: broschro on January 30, 2014, 12:41:23 PM
rust-oleum auto stripper works very good to remove powder coating surfaces if you need to strip.I will be moving up to the next level of Guns.

Thanks!  I definitely have a couple redo candidates.
 
It looks like the Rustoleum product uses methylene chloride.   The other option  is benzyl alcohol, much less toxic and easier to dispose.    It looks like SmartStrip from Dumond is available in the USA.  Have you tried this stuff?

not yet but i will.We have an awesome recycle center that will take old solvents and such for free.the rustoleum works supper fast.

That Methylene Chloride is some bad stuff Jamie. You can't even wear a respirator to protect yourself from it. It crystalizes the filters. We use to use it at work for dissolving acrylic on our belts before polishing them. We don't use it any more.

Thanks for the heads up Daron.