Question for PENN historians

[Dominick]

You got us beat Ted .
Daron, this morning I was looking for a new 850, I knew I had it but couldn't find it anywhere. I opened a cabinet in the loundry room and found that reel, along with some more  9500 new with boxes .Nice to forget what you have and get surprised .

Show off.  Although if you got it flaunt it.  Dominick

[Shark Hunter]

I can't compete with the Godfather!

[broadway]

What I can't figure out is... how does Sal have so many nice and new reels when he's always sending people reels and parts as gifts?
That stash must run deep!
Definitely wanna visit Sal someday... We've got a lot to go through.  First, a conversation about Dominick's speedo collection, then some fine Italian food, a glance around the workshop, and lastly, to drool at his treasures.
Sals been at this game for a lot longer than most of us, which is a good thing because he gets it and knows how to pass it on to us.
Daron, for someone who's just recently gotten into this hobby I'd say you're doing alright
Thank God for you guys because my fiancé doesn't think my addiction is so bad when she looks at some of your photos.
Any chance someone has that left handed 1/0 in mint condition with the german silver labeled green box? It sold on Ebay 2-3 years ago for about $330? ...I've never seen another that old in left hand, not to mention, in mint condition!
I didn't know squat about reels when it came up and bid something like $125.  I won't do that again. 
Thanks
Dom

[Penn Chronology]

                   This thread has been an enjoyable read. When you guys start your communicating, you put some pretty straight history together in a very interesting way.

                   Yes the first 209 was black but it was also structurally different. The reason some of you have found cross bars with undercut ends was because the first 209 had what Penn called riveted frames. The stand and cross bars fitted into the trim rings and were slightly penned over, so when you removed the side plates, the frame stayed in one piece. You could not order frame parts from Penn for an early 209's because of that. Penn only sold the complete frame in one piece. I would have to go to the books to know exactly when Penn stopped this practice but I would make a guess that they went to a normal type breakdown frame around 1955 when they introduced the reel in the Green color all the collectors look for. That early sacrificial worm drive gear was made of Phenolic in the early reels before it became nylon.

                    Ted, your 1936 Penn Senator 115 is the absolute best in existence, that I know of. It is not easy for me to say that because I also have one, but yours is definitely better than mine:


                     Actually my favorite Senator is the 1937 first 12/O because it is a weird big game Penn reel. Imagine a 12/O with a straight handle and no rod braces. It sort of looks like a Long Beach on Steroids:

                      The side plates and trim rings for this early 12/O are very rare because they are not cut out for the forward rod harness lugs. By the way, I own this reel but I do not own the handle. These handles are very rare because they were junk. Most people that bought these old 12/O's changed out the handle to the Torpedo type handle. Many garbage pails were filled with this handle, consequently making it very difficult to find. I had to borrow this handle from a collector I know to install it on my reel just for the photo shoot.

Later,

Mike C.
                   

[Alto Mare]

Thanks for the info Mike.
Three years ago I was bidding on a 12/0 similar to the one you're showing, but this one was in excellent shape. Somehow, even though I had bids on it, the reel disappeared and wasn't available anymore . That's when I found out that eBay is a joke.

Sal

[Maxed Out]

Thanks for the info Mike.
Three years ago I was bidding on a 12/0 similar to the one you're showing, but this one was in excellent shape. Somehow, even though I had bids on it, the reel disappeared and wasn't available anymore . That's when I found out that eBay is a joke.

Sal

I agree Sal, eBay can be very frustrating at times. The boxed 1936 9/0 senator I ended up winning last spring was attempted to be hi-jacked by someone who offered a buy it now thru a PM. The seller posted the question on the sale so nobody else would try that. BTW, the attempted hi-jackers offer was 15% of what it ended up selling for. I've seen others disappear the same way, and I have actually done it a couple times myself. Make an offer on a PM and sometimes the seller will take the offer.

I've had a few great deals fall into my lap on eBay, but few and far between on the old penns. My best one was about 6 months ago, a seller listed a used 3/0 senator for $90 buy it now. It looked suspicious, so I clicked on it and it was a first year 9/0 senator with a blue and white 3/0 box. The reel is only stamped "senator" so I assume the unknowing seller thought it belonged to that box. Funny thing is it wouldn't fit halfway in that 3/0 box. I did buy it and the box was shipped next to the reel and seller never mentioned a word about why it would not fit in the 3/0 box, but I wasn't complaining.

Michael, it's always great to read your posts and drool on the cool pics of the ancient penns. Please keep them coming. Sal won't mind.

The 12/0 without harness lugs does look like a long beach on steroids and can't imagine having a 500# fish on with that little nob to crank on, I woulda tossed it too if it was me that bought it new in 1937, then got a look at the newer style just a year or 2 later that was 1,000 times better. Makes sense that most were upgraded.

[Penn Chronology]

Three years ago I was bidding on a 12/0 similar to the one you're showing, but this one was in excellent shape. Somehow, even though I had bids on it, the reel disappeared and wasn't available anymore Undecided. That's when I found out that eBay is a joke.

Hello Sal,

                    Problem with listings being ended early on EBay is not totally the fault of EBay, it is insecure sellers that fall prey to what I call, "Back Door Offers". What surprises me is that many people that buy and sell on EBay feel that it is OK to end auctions early, even if they have a bid in place.
                    You have a point about EBay not doing the right thing because they do condone the practice, as long as the seller that is ending the auction early, relists his item immediately with a Buy It Now price. If the ending of the auction is done in that manner, EBay gets its Final Value Fee and all is well in EBay Land. My feeling is the entire practice should not be allowed if there is a bid on an item. An item with zero bids has no one being put off by an early ending to an auction but the item has bids on it should have to go the full auction.
                    I have been buying and selling on EBay for many years. Before that, I used to Buy and Sell in publications like the Newspapers and the Buylines. Ebay is a thousand times better than those old days of paper classified ads but it is not perfect. I find 99% of my deals on EBay go the right way, it is that 1% that gets under peoples skin. No matter how well something works, it is never perfect. EBay works for me, I also love Flea Markets and Garage sales. I have learned not to ever expect perfection, when I do that, I am never disappointed.

[fIsHsTiiCkS]

I sell on eBay  A LOT! I have had a few people try to back door buy the item! Even had a guy give me his number and try to work out a group deal for some of my items! I dont do this and tell them the only way to get the item is to win the auction! If sellers want people to makes offers then thats why eBay offers the OBO option.

[broadway]

Mike, I've never seen a penn handle in any publications that looks like that.  It's always fun seeing your toys that I didn't even know existed.  If it's in your book, I just didn't get to the page yet.  It's an awesome book that I wish I had more time  to read, but I assure you it'll be done asap.
In regards to ebay, I have personally been the turd you guys are talking about, but only with 0 bids on the item. If there are any bids on a reel I feel it's crappy to have the auction end early.  As a matter a fact, it happened to me less than a month ago, and the guy gave me some BS about he had to change the handle out for the original... He never resisted the reel.  If there aren't any bids at all then it's fair game in my opinion. 
Ted, deserves that 9/0 that he won for more reasons then he just bid more. The truth is that he respects the engineering, history, and tradition of that historically important reel.  He has shared some photos with me as I mentioned to him that he was bidding against me, also. One thing I know is that because Ted is the current care taker of that beauty I will always be able to see her.
Mike, I'm gonna stop by some day to drool on your rug as you've made me drool on mine a few times this week 
Dom

[Penn Chronology]

Mike, I've never seen a penn handle in any publications that looks like that.  It's always fun seeing your toys that I didn't even know existed.

Dom, it is no surprise you have not seen that handle in any Penn publication. The last time Penn pictured a reel with that handle was 1938.

            In 1939, Penn changed all the Senators to the first torpedo handles and never turned back to these old types for the big game reels.

[Shark Hunter]

WOW!
In 1938, a 12/0 was $50.
Compared to today. That's about $650.

[Penn Chronology]

WOW! Shocked
In 1938, a 12/0 was $50.
Compared to today. That's about $650.

Yes, the price increase is insane. I sometimes wonder why a society like the USA cannot balance itself for awhile instead of costs constantly going up. Life could be so much better if we could plan on something costing the same thing next year as it costs this year. Today when you decide to save for an item, by the time you save the cost of the item, your saving will no longer buy it. 

[broadway]

That's a good reason why I haven't seen it. Do you think the reason reels were so pricey back then was because they were used to feed families and not really for recreation as much?
Thanks,
Dom

[Dominick]

WOW!
In 1938, a 12/0 was $50.
Compared to today. That's about $650.

Yep.  Did you notice for an extra $2.00 you could get a left handed model?  Imagine what that would be worth. Dominick

[Penn Chronology]

Do you think the reason reels were so pricey back then was because they were used to feed families and not really for recreation as much?

              That is a questions with more than one answer. It depends what reels you are talking about. Big game reels ( aka Pricey Reels) were about Sport Fishing, not Food Fishing, even back then. What made the Penn reels so popular was that even though their Big Game reels were pricey, they were not as pricey as the competition and they did the job. Penn brought Big Game Fishing to the working class man, before Penn, big game fishing was sport for the money people.
              The reels that were about Food Fishing were the simple, low priced reels like the Sea Hawk and the Penn 85 Sea Boy, etc. People that were fishing for food fished for species like Flounder, Porgies, Blackfish and so on.