alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Penn Reels - just as you find them
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Penn Reels - just as you find them  (Read 513698 times)
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« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2015, 12:26:16 AM »

Brian,

Great reel, super restoration. I was surprised how nice the reel came out. I absolutely love the rod, but you know that.

At this point in time, we have hashed over the production times of these reels so many times that I have to assume that the first and second generation build styles were, for some unknown amount time, leaving the factory at the same time period, both pre and post WW II.

This brings to mind, how little was known about Penn reels just 8 or 10 years ago. I remember having discussions with people about the doubt of the existence of the 1933 Sea Ford because it was not in the catalog and also absolutely no one knew anything about First Generation build styles of Senators. Ray and I kept that secret for a very long time. We have come a long way in a short time.

Now Brian, will you please help me find a First Gen 16/0 before all these Tani guys jump on it! Grin
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« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2015, 04:21:15 AM »

Mike,

I sent the American Pickers a request for one approx a year ago....No answer.

Ray
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« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2015, 05:04:36 AM »

Did you see that episode where they picked the old bait and tackle shop, and they walked right past all the old rods and reels without so much as a word? 

I was thinking I would ask them to try to find one of those Penn dealer reel displays.  Maybe we should wait and see if they come through on Mike's 16/0 first Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2015, 07:15:43 PM »

   Thanks for the compliments, but I can't take all the credit. A lot goes to the original owner. Most of what you saw on the before photo was dried out grease. You can see in the photo that the grease and oil tubes have been used a lot. I think that most of went on the outside of the reel. The reel does not look like it was used more than a couple of times, inside is like new.
  Ted,
      Believe it or not, I still have room on the Penn shelves for a few more reels. On the rest of the shelves I've reached a point where if I add a reel something else has to go.
  
  John,
      There are a number theories as to when Penn went to second generation Senators. I will try to explain my, which is
  based on catalogs, photos, adds and reels in my collection. I have relied more on the written description in the catalogs. Something I don't get is why Penn changed the photo for the Sea Hawk in 1937 and 1938 to show the changes in the reel but not for the Senators.
      We know that the 16/0 was made in second generation in 1940 by the photo on the back cover of the 1941 catalog. Now when it was available to the public we don't know.
    

 Next there is the March 1942 add showing the second generation 16/0. If you look at the add you will see that they show the 16/0 reel with large 16/0 drags. The first generation and early second generation 16/0 reels had the same drags as the 12/0.
  
      
      
   The 9/0 went to second generation in 1941. The early reels did not have the forward rod brace lugs as the were using their old rings that did not have the cut outs. As you and others have said they did not throw out good parts. I feel that this was the case with a lot of parts that could be used on either generation, but not the plates. They knew in advance that they were going to the second generation reels so they only made enough plates to get them though the current year. Another thing we need to keep in mind. It is my understanding that Penn was going to 7 O'clock for better leverage, not for looks.
        
     Now if you look at the years that each of the other Senators made prior to 1941, the price of the different ones and lack of first generation reels for a number of models. Based on all of this, by 1941 or 1942 Penn was making nothing bur second generation reels. If the first generations reels were still being made after WW11 there would be a lot more of them.
    As Mike posted " At this point in time, we have hashed over the production times of these reels so many times that I have to assume that the first and second generation build styles were, for some unknown amount time, leaving the factory at the same time period, both pre and post WW II.

This brings to mind, how little was known about Penn reels just 8 or 10 years ago. I remember having discussions with people about the doubt of the existence of the 1933 Sea Ford because it was not in the catalog and also absolutely no one knew anything about First Generation build styles of Senators. Ray and I kept that secret for a very long time. We have come a long way in a short time."
     I feel that if first generation reels were made after WW11 this would not have been the case.
   I hope all this makes sense, I'm not a writer like Mike.
    Mike,
      You will be the first to know if I have a lead on first generation 16/0.    
  
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 08:12:28 PM by Oceanreels » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2015, 10:15:46 PM »



   Well said Brian. Most of what you just said is backed up by documentation, the rest is a VERY LOGICAL conclusion based on the facts. Many people go to prison for life on less conclusive information. I'd say the jury is no longer out on this verdict.

   Thanks for posting your reasoning Brian, and always waiting for whats next from good old Oregon !!
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« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2015, 11:24:56 PM »

Brian,

Your reasoning is totally logical. I do not believe we need proof to learn anything from this time forward, I suspect that proof would only be used for verification at this point.

I believe you should have your insurance guy write a high end policy for your collection. You have amassed a phenomenal amount of scarce reels  Shocked Shocked

All the Best,

Mike C.

PS-----Thanks for the thoughts in terms of letting me know about a 1st gen 16/0, if one crosses your path. I do not believe I could ever afford to buy one if it went public. These new collectors are driving the prices nuts. Have you been watching the Model F this week, it is almost $1400 with 2 days left and has not reached the reserve. The pockets are getting deeper!
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« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2015, 11:48:07 PM »

  Mike,
      Prices are getting nuts. However, as I think we all know, it's your skill as an author that put them there.
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« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2015, 05:36:11 AM »

Quote
Mike,
      Prices are getting nuts. However, as I think we all know, it's your skill as an author that put them there.

Thanks, I still cannot get used to feeling that. I am a mechanic.
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« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2015, 12:08:50 PM »

You did a beautiful job on that 9/0 and the box as well, Brian. Thanks for sharing it with us.
I remember one of those lighthouse boxes disintegrated before my eyes, as I was trying to put it back together Undecided...excellent work!

Sal


Did you see that episode where they picked the old bait and tackle shop, and they walked right past all the old rods and reels without so much as a word? 

I was thinking I would ask them to try to find one of those Penn dealer reel displays.  Maybe we should wait and see if they come through on Mike's 16/0 first Smiley
Those two remind me of these two guys
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« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2015, 02:27:40 PM »

It is my understanding that Penn was going to 7 O'clock for better leverage, not for looks.
I've had PM exchanges with Mike about the reason for the changeover from 1st to 2nd gen Senators, and I suggested this same thing.... As the Senator line got larger Henze concluded (this is speculation) that as the reels got larger and the gear sleeve got farther from the angler cranking efficiency went down. His solution was to change the position of the crank so it was closer to the angler at the 7 o'clock position, which increased cranking efficiency - but he discovered this first on the 16/0, before many were made, and switched over early in production. I think it took the size of the 16/0 for him to find a need to change the design. Just speculation, but it makes logical sense.

Sid
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« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2015, 07:03:58 PM »

My favorite American Picker is Danielle, without her, the show is boring.............................
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« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2015, 07:26:00 PM »

Did you see that episode where they picked the old bait and tackle shop, and they walked right past all the old rods and reels without so much as a word? 

No surprise; those two nerds would rather buy a rusted-out gumball machine stand than a cherry old Penn reel.   Roll Eyes

~A~

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« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2015, 02:07:42 AM »

Quote
No surprise; those two nerds would rather buy a rusted-out gumball machine stand than a cherry old Penn reel.   Roll Eyes

Maybe it is me; but, I find it hard to believe two guys are driving all over the country in a big white van buying junk to resell and actually making a living at it. What I suspect is a really smart script writer has created a hot reality show and that is where the dollars really come from.
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« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2015, 10:35:27 PM »

  

   Here is a 1946/47 long beach 67 as found with era correct linen line. It fell outta the sky and hit me in the head outta nowhere. Wink Wink... I just dusted it off is all.   Not bad for $13 Grin Grin

   Ted


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« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 10:38:51 PM by Max Doubt » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2015, 10:39:05 PM »

Ted's "dusting" jobs are better than my full-blown restorations!

Best,

Fred
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