alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
February 27, 2020, 01:59:14 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial  (Read 132887 times)
0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.
johndtuttle
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1922


« on: October 23, 2012, 02:48:27 PM »

G'day Gents,

This new reel from Penn has been generating quite a buzz in the Surf Fishing Community as it has been specifically engineered to meet the requirements of the majority of those that target finned creatures from the beach or shore. This is due to improved sealing to protect the reel from inevitable splashes and inadvertent dunks and is a first for spinning reels at this price. This basic Service Tutorial is intended to provide a visual reference for those attempting the same as included schematics rarely provide much in the way of "assembled" views and notoriously tiny parts can suddenly spring out leading the unwary to come to grief.

This is not a review in any deeper sense as I have not used the reel at length and the true test of it's design will only come with time. Though I may opine a tad here and there this should only be construed as conjecture as only time on the water will test the parts and pieces of this brand new to the market product.  I like everyone else wait for Alan Hawk's definitive review after months of use and real engineering analysis of wear over time to understand what I have in my hands.

The Parts List that we will be using for our reference can be found as a downloadable .pdf here:
http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/purefishing/407-SSV4500

Lookie Lookie! It is a surprisingly handsome devil for $139:





But this is not a beauty contest so lets get to work Smiley.

Drag cap, nothing under the screws they simply attach the cosmetic Penn plate but on the underside we see the seal of the top of the drag stack and the Drag Knob Assembly (52):



Disassembled we find the knob clicker assembly and this spring (not shown on the schematic) which is intended to maintain constant pressure on drag so it doesn't loosen from vibration. A little grease on the seal never hurts anything and will improve water-tightness of the stack before putting it back. I used Cal's Drag grease in case any works it's way down as I use Cal's on the drag washers.



Like so, to help seal at the top. This seal slides rather easily around and if it gets out of position your drag will leak. After maintenance I make sure that it is well towards the bottom of the knob then let it find the ideal position as you put the knob back as you screw on the knob on to get a good seal.



The Top Stack (below), remove the Drag Washer Retainer (51) and find one Keyed Drag Washer (57T) and Drag Friction Washer (56T). I did not photograph them as there is simply one each in the top stack with the Spool Bushing (63) below ie not super exciting. I pushed and prodded on the Spool Bushing but it did not budge. This may not be an easily removable part (nor should it necessarily need to be) I will contact Penn and see what they have to say about this. Some have reported Blue Grease in their drag but this reel was dry so the washers got a light coat of Cal's. The Blue Grease you see here was from the Factory from lubing the seal.



Below we find the much more impressive under spool drag with it's eared drag washers. Remove the Drag Cover (47C) by removing it's three screws (22A) one of which goes through the shown wire arm (Line Clip Retainer 47F) which keeps the Line Clip (47D) and it's bushing in place.  One early problem that Penn had in assembly was the proper seating of the Drag Drive Plate Seal (47S). If you look at the image below you can see that the "ears" of the Seal are "flapping in the breeze" as it were and not properly doing their job.



The proper way for it to be seated looks like this:



Which is a little tricky to accomplish after you have taken the Drag Cover off. The easy way to do it (for me) is to put the Drive Plate and Clicker in the Cover and let the ears stay out, otherwise their spring action prevents the Clicker from seating properly (hard to descibe but if you do it, it will become clear) as they cause it pop out when you try and re-assemble. Once you get the Cover back on but with all 3 screws still loose you can gently push the edges of the Seal under the cover with a blunt instrument. Then tighten the screws down and the seal will be held in proper position.

If your ears are not seated properly when you purchase your reel no need to take the Drive Plate completely off. As above, just loosen the 3 screws and gently tuck the ears under then re-tighten.

This is the Drag Drive Plate disassembled, important is that the Keyed Drag Washer Lock Plate (116) holds down a eared Keyed Drag Washer (the one on the left) that keeps the Spool Clicker (48) in position.



Once the cover is off we can pull out the eared Drag Friction Washers (56) and the Keyed Washers (57).  The Drag Drive Plate (117) and the Spool Clicker (48) come off leaving the Drag Cover Seal (48S) on the spool (below). All of these washers got a light coat of Cal's drag grease.



With a good coat of grease on the bottom for lube and for additional water protection (per Penn). This grease will come in contact with water and sand. If you need less sealing, you can go without, if you need as much water resistance as you can get this should be an area you regularly wipe down and reapply fresh grease:



The Line Roller is simple as can be. I like Corrosion-X in here though I greased the screw when I put it back to get some in it's threads:



Below is the entire assembly in order, from L to R the Line Roller Ball Bearing (35A), Line Roller (35), Line Roller Washer (132A), Line Roller Collar (132) and the Line Roller Screw (36).



Once it's back together you can see the threads on the opposite side of the arm from the Bail Arm Screw (31) and Line Roller Screw (36). In these I put a drop of Corrosion-X and wiped off the excess as they will trap salt and water in those little nooks. You may be tempted to use grease, but it will attract sand.



I did take the Rotor Cover (27A) off to see what Penn was up to with their Bail Spring (32), Pivot Arm (34C) and Bail Trip Lever (28) and found a pretty standard plan. The Bail Spring is surprisingly robust and long so count on it jumping out of it's slot as soon as the cover is loosened. When putting it back together if there is any loose play in the bail it has jumped out of it's slot and you'll have to try again. One hand really has to keep the Spring pressed flat while you squeeze the Cover on with the other or it will squirt out. It's a bit fiddly but it does give the bail a nice firm return.



If your reel has been getting dunked this is an area you need to monitor. The underside of the rotor shows that the Bail Trip Lever comes through this opening to interact with the trip on the Body. That opening will allow water and sand into the housing of the Bail Spring et al so you need to stay on top of this.



Ok, now the real meat and potatoes Smiley. The rotor comes off easily after removing the Main Shaft Washer (39B) and any Spool Adjust Washers (39A) that you may have added. The Rotor Nut (38) comes off after removing the Rotor Nut Locking Plate (95B) by removing it's screw (38A). The nut itself is righty tight, lefty loose. I left the rotor washer (38D) in place.



Then the Pinion Bearing Retainer and it's 3 screws (21A) come off. Careful with these as they were surprisingly tight so don't strip them.



I did not remove the Rotor Brake (28D) as there was no need but it would come off simply with it's 2 screws (28S). The Trip of the Bail is done by this bit of beef on the body itself:



Ok, with the Pinion Bearing Retainer out of the way with some wiggles and shakes out drops the heart of the beast: The pinion Ball Bearings (20A), Pinion Ball Bearing Collar (21B), the Clutch/Sleeve Assembly (98, and nice a nice stainless AR Bearing it appears too), a second pinion Ball Bearing (20A), a mere slip of a Pinion Gear Washer (19A) and the Pinion Gear (19) all in one piece, sliding off of the Main Shaft (39):



And in their proper order:



For all of this below the Bearing Retainer I found all the parts feeling lightly oiled. Typically this type of "barrel" AR Clutch works fine with some light oil in it. Cleaning as needed should be with a plastic safe solvent and compressed air. The shields on the bearings did have retaining clips and so could be removed to check for adequacy of the factory grease but the clips were very fine and to be honest I didn't have a hook with a small enough tip to get a grip on them. Penn has been doing a really good job getting grease in there recently but the truly dedicated would pull the shields to check.

The reel is partly sealed but you may note that there is none in this area and is the main reason Penn does not rate it for cranking underwater. As the shaft moves up and down it could potentially introduce Salt and Water down into the Bearings and Clutch. I found it all *lightly* oiled from the factory but am confident that a light marine grease is ideal for protection in this area. This type of Clutch uses nylon springs that hold up well to light grease (you can lighten any with Corrosion-X if it is very sticky).

This is how I finish off the top of the assembly with Penn Grease:



Which is not a complete seal by any means. However, it will stop water from getting deeper in the reel after a brief dunk. Afterwards, a brief cleaning out of any discolored grease is all that is required, a re-grease and you are good to go confident that everything is still protected.

The upper Pinion Bearing (20A) For the above reasons also deserves careful attention. I made a quick tutorial for the ideal way to pack it with marine grease:











I put corrosion-x under the Bearing Retainer and greased it's screws.

The Body Cover comes off easy peasy:



And we get our first look inside (drum roll please Smiley) to find it all held in in the Body Assembly (1) protected by the Body Seal (2L). Note that this seal per Penn is safe for contact with grease so a thin film on the rim to complete the job should be fine:



The Drive Gear. Aluminum/Zinc Alloy per Penn:



And then the deeper guts with the Drive Gear out of the way with the Oscillation Gear (231) which is driven off of the Main and powers the Oscillation Slider (43) via the Oscillation Slider Guide (43A) which attaches to the Main Shaft to manage line lay:



This is all proven Penn Tech and I did not disassemble them for this basic tutorial. Standard Service should not need their removal nor should you find it challenging to strip them out and clean them if they need it. All that you see here is grease from the factory, even cleaned up a bit for photos, and will be good to go out of the box to fish Smiley.

If you do proceed further and remove the Main Shaft Screws (44) be advised that they should go back with some blue loctite. You don't want them coming loose inside the body ever.

There is a change from Penn's older SS design in that the Handle Assembly (15) simply unscrews from the Drive Gear but if you choose to remove the Bearing Retainer (232) there is a potential Pitfall. This is of the "*Sproing!....tinkle, tinkle* O geez, what was that...." variety: The Handle Cap Lock Pin (15N) and Spring (15M). Ask me how I know this Sad. I did remove it to get good grease on the bearing below.



They are shown with the Handle Cap (233A) etc. above. Apparently the function of this is to pop up into a little recess under the cap but Penn has found some leakage here and is now recommending that you hand tighten the cap all the way down to get better sealing of the body. I added some grease as well to form one more barrier. This photo does not do justice as to their size. If you are going to take this off be prepared with a good "landing" area that can be easily searched and your best magnifying glass....Smiley

Lastly we have the Handle Assembly (15) that does have a nice seal at it's base. We'll add some marine grease to the threads:



And the handle seems to be permanently attached so no bearings or bushings to fuss with, just little oil and you are off fishing:



Ok, the way these things usually work with me is I slap this together and then spend some time thinking about how it lays out and if there is anything else I need to show or if people have questions etc so I will add as requested. So please post if you need a clarification or a photo of something so that I might help. Personally, I was very curious about this new offering like a number of anglers who surf fish and this look inside was a treat to see what over time should be a very successful addition to the Spinfisher Line with simple robust design at it's heart.

The only "Review" I would add are a few surface impressions. The Body and Rotor are nice and beefy and remind me of my old 650SS. Definitely of the variety that would give you piece of mind if you stumble on some rocks and the reel or rotor takes a knock. The penalty that you pay for this is in "startup" inertia that makes the handle feel a little stiff. Once the rotor gets moving though you can feel that the handle moves well and is only marginally stiffer than other offerings that do not have handle seals and have graphite rotors rather than metal in the Spinfisher V. After that it is all tried and true Penn Design and after a few months we should see if anything crops up. I for one am looking forward immensely to Alan Hawk's review as he really puts a reel through it's paces.

Thanks to TimS for sending his own reel to me so that I could play with it! Smiley

best regards


ps. A note about Shims:

The amount of ideal play of the gear train if memory serves is like 0.004" and the assembly worker has to get it right the first time but there seems to be some "art" involved. It seems that depending on load the reel has to be shimmed differently or if during assembly a reel may seem "good enough" but in use it sometimes needs to be tightened up or loosened up to prevent binding.

Some have reported bumps or binding under load with their reels and this is likely a shimming issue.

Both parameters (not too tight or too loose) have to be met to have smooth gear meshing. And over time the addition of a shim or two may be needed to prevent more rapid wear.

This goes for the Main Gear as well as the Pinion. The Main gets shimmed for side to side play (the shims might be needed on the right or the left) and the Pinion gets shimmed for fore and rear play (either in front or behind the gear teeth). 0.004" is not a lot of play so if you have binding see if this may be the issue. PENN will happily send you shims if needed or look at your reel for you if you have trouble.

As well, sometimes there are Rotor shims on top of the last bearing in the pinion assembly. These adjust the Rotor height and are used to adjust line lay. More are added if line is bulging at the top of the spool.


best regards
















« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:15:15 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
Alto Mare
Moderator
Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 12786


Southeastern Pennsylvania


« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 03:09:14 PM »

Very nice John, thanks for showing it. Anxiously waiting for you to remove that side plate. I might as well take my dog for a walk... good call Wink.
Sal
Logged

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
basto
Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 1094



« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 07:07:38 PM »

The roller on the traverse cam is a nice touch. Bearing or bushing?
Logged

DAM Quick 3001      SHIMANO Triton Mark 3S    Jigging Master PE5n
johndtuttle
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1922


« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 07:38:03 PM »

The roller on the traverse cam is a nice touch. Bearing or bushing?

Bushing. Might be easily upgraded to a bearing by the enterprising Smiley, but I have not checked the dimensions.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:40:03 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
Cone
Firearms Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1225



« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 08:25:14 PM »

Very nice! Now I'd like to see the larger 7500 up with the back up dog. Bob
Logged

"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
   -    Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 4 BC – 65 AD
johndtuttle
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1922


« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 09:13:53 PM »

Very nice! Now I'd like to see the larger 7500 up with the back up dog. Bob

Should be very straight forward as Penn has a long history there in the Spinfisher Smiley.
Logged
0119
Firearms Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 271


« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 02:19:51 PM »

Thanks for the tutorial. I'm really excited about this reel. The strippers site is so full of negative argument, its nice to see someone looking at it with an objective eye.
Logged
johndtuttle
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1922


« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 02:32:41 PM »

Thanks for the tutorial. I'm really excited about this reel. The strippers site is so full of negative argument, its nice to see someone looking at it with an objective eye.

There were some issues with with assembly where a seal was not placed properly and a cap on the body was too loose that led to some leakage. My post addresses these issue and clarifies how easy it is to remedy.

It's a brand new reel and may have other "teething" issues or bugs to sort out, but if you get the reel in your hands you cannot but be impressed with how much reel you get for your dollar and it easily will be the best surf reel in it's class for dealing with sand and salt.

best
Logged
conchydong
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 1464


Pompano Beach, FL


« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 03:04:17 PM »

Nice job Doc. Looks like Penn has another winner in  the bang for the buck category.
Logged
Alto Mare
Moderator
Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 12786


Southeastern Pennsylvania


« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 04:50:58 PM »

John your tutorial is excellent, thank you. I do want to mention that the reel itself didn't excite me much Undecided. For now i'm sticking with my ss models.
Sal
Logged

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
johndtuttle
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1922


« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 06:31:49 PM »

John your tutorial is excellent, thank you. I do want to mention that the reel itself didn't excite me much Undecided. For now i'm sticking with my ss models.
Sal

O yea Sal, it's not earth shattering tech or anything. Given the state of things in it's $140-$180 price range however for someone looking for a new reel for kicking around jetties and beaches it's pretty hard to beat (though time will truly tell).

It's just one of those "market place reality" sort of things. The older Penn Spinfisher SS is probably best represented by the Finn Nor Offshore (I think they are...anyways, I'm sure you are familiar with it) but other reels vastly out sell them. Too heavy and too "unrefined" for the market.

It seems reality is that purely mechanically dogged tanks simply are not what most people are looking for, as indestructible as they may be. Besides, we know you're old school  Grin.

best regards, John

ps. I think the 7500 and larger have mechanical dog back up though as they'll make a lot of drag with their big under spool drag washers and need protection from going "knuckle buster".

Logged
Alto Mare
Moderator
Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 12786


Southeastern Pennsylvania


« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 07:21:59 PM »

John, I couldn't have said it better myself Wink. You already know that I'll be picking up one of those for myself Wink. I'm hoping that on larger reels, the spool shaft goes all the way through the housing and into a bushing at the rear , as in the ss and torque.
Additional dogs on the 750 is a nice touch.
You mentioned the Finn-Nor, I recently acquired a box of spools. I got to see what manufacturers put out, the spools that I really liked were from Shimano...not easy for me to admit. The Fin-nor Ahab 20 were kind of flimsy, almost bendable by squeezing....I'm sure i could if I wanted to.
Thanks John!
Sal
Logged

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
Kyle K
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 11:07:05 AM »

Parts diagrams are up now on Penn's website.  The 9500 and 10500 size do have the rear bushing supporting the shaft.
Logged
Alto Mare
Moderator
Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 12786


Southeastern Pennsylvania


« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 11:59:41 AM »

Thanks Kyle, I appreciate the info, now that's more like it.

Now that I have some additional info, it appears someone didn't do their homework Grin. The 7500SS is actually lighter than the 7500SSV Undecided.
Sal
Logged

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
johndtuttle
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1922


« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 12:18:55 PM »

Thanks Kyle, I appreciate the info, now that's more like it.

Now that I have some additional info, it appears someone didn't do their homework Grin. The 7500SS is actually lighter than the 7500SSV Undecided.
Sal

I think you'll be pleased when you finally get one in your hand. I don't think the photos do justice to how rugged they feel and it all seems ideal for a reel intended to be banged around on jetties and beaches. The weight seems well justified in this regard.

I know I would have far more confidence to do that with an SSV than I would be with my Shimanos, but they get the nod for certain esoteric needs for the majority of my "serious" fishing.

best
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 01:17:36 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.697 seconds with 18 queries.