Lever vs Star - mechanics wise

[saltydog]

I am with you Sal I am a star man myself,not that I haven't used or owned them before. But I prefer the star over a lever in most fishing applications especially when ruggedness is what you need.

Now don't get me wrong they are pretty but I can catch the same fish on a star drag reel just as easy as with a lever and jig just as well too with one that is properly built.And I can have more than just one,the cost does not justify the bling.

[Bucktail]

I personally think lever drags are overkill for many types of fishing.  Where I live I see guys fishing them for inshore fish, such as fluke and black sea bass.  Totally unnecessary. 

I fish star drags for everything, including smaller tuna.  If and when I start fishing for 200 lb. plus tuna, I will consider a lever drag.  Until then, I will stick with the reliability and simplicity of my stars.

[johndtuttle]

needless to say this is an "old school" site where rugged simplicity is going to be appreciated. 

Then again, Studio Ocean Mark does offer their lever drag reels with angular contact bearings for about ~$1200 last I checked for a 3/0 size reel  .

[RowdyW]

Just what we need a Rolls Royce or a Bently to go to the supermarket down the street to pick up bread & milk.

[Mandelstam]

needless to say this is an "old school" site where rugged simplicity is going to be appreciated. 
...

I sure love old school and simplicity! But, as I am an newbie in comparison to a lot of you guys here, please explain why a star drag is so much simpler and more rugged than a lever drag system? I've looked at a few service guides on lever drags but to me they don't look overly complicated.. What am I missing?

/Karl

[Jeri]

Hi Karl,

Reading your questions, and answering as such. The repeatability of the drag settings on a lever drag are the biggest benefit over the humble yet robust star drag. Once you have set the drag at 'strike' for a given line load, then you have the infinite repeatability that you will never get from any star drag – which if you are fishing in line class, and particularly lower line classes can be the difference between success and failure.

As to actual mechanisms, generally the lever drags will offer more available drag pressure for a given size of reel (spool diameter), though they are a precision instrument, and do not respond well to abusive treatment.

We fish a lot is surf casting, and have found that the lever drags in most models that we use out cast the star drags, and it doesn't take a lot of changes or 'angler education' to change up to lever drag reels and get the benefit of the better free spool availability – a product of the drag mechanism.

Lastly, generally the drag materials are better in lever drag reels, as well as the bearings – the manufacturers are looking for better quality in the product. Star drags however can very quickly be brought up to the more effective materials with aftermarket drags and bearings (Carbontex and Boca).

The above are some generalities, as there are older lever drag reels that benefit from upgrades to the drag material, while very few star drag reels come fitted as standard with the likes of carbontex washers or high quality bearings.

I fish with both for pleasure and at competition levels, both have their place, if I'm standing chest deep on a sand bank for a couple of hours I would immediately opt for the star drag (with up grades), while if I'm on the beach looking for maximum distance, the lever drag reels are my first choice. It is very much a matter of horses for courses. If I was to run a charter boat, i would probably opt for star drags, as I do when I am guiding clients on the beach – they are just so 'idiot-proof', and will take a lot of punishment.

We had a competition at the weekend, loads of clubs all competing against each other, my club with just 7 anglers landed over 977kgs (nearly 1 ton) of sharks in 7 hours, of the 7 anglers that caught in the club 4 were using star drags, 3 were using lever drags. No reels failed on the day, nearly all the star drags had been up graded.

At the end of the end of the day – a hand line would probably be the most effective in a lot of situations – zero mechanical issues, then we would have a forum discussing the virtues of different gloves and gloves treatment??? We all like our technology, it is just a matter of what level of technology you wish to work with – we dare not discuss fishing rods bamboo, cane, split cane, glass fibre, low tech carbon or high tech carbon.

You pays your money, and takes your choice!!!

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[SoCalAngler]

My only issue with your line of thinking, SoCalAngler, is that the numbers just don't matter. It is sort of like the 30-06 or 300 Win mag argument, if the elk is dead who cares if the bullet was traveling at 2700 or 3000 fps? If you land the fish who cares if you were using 10 or 11.5 pounds of drag? Numbers are great in the lab  and for comparing apples to apples, but when the fight is on they just don't really have a lot of influence. I have never not gotten extra drag on it time with a star drag. I have (30 years ago) snapped fish clean off from flipping a lever to far.

Ron

To each his own Ron and I don't know where you fish or what you fish for, but for me if I have a fish of a lifetime or possible world record on my line I want to know exactly where my drags are set. Will this happen often? No, but if or when it does I'll be ready. Now 1.5 pounds over 10 lbs comming off the reel is nothing but if you have out 200-300 yards of line out and your spool is much smaller in diameter that 11.5 pounds of drag has increased much more.

Two years ago down in Baja I landed a 250 lb Thresher on 50 lb test. World record? Nope not even close. Can you pull hard on 50 lb test? Yep, but how hard can you pull before breaking your line when your almost spooled in about 20 seconds? Mouth hooked Threshers get pretty PO'ed you know. Landing that fish stand up style without a harness from a 21' center console in under 20 minutes means you have to put maximum presure on the fish from start to finish. Everything must be right, connections, hook, gear, angler and boat operation. Fish of a lifetime? Just one of many and with God willing there will be many more.

As far as people using too heavy of gear for the fishing their doing well thats them. I'm a Southern California fisherman, where big fish on smaller gear is what we do. The west coast has always and will be on the cutting edge of fishing. First recognized fishing club in America, widely available aftermarket upgrade parts for Penn reels, stand up style of fishing for big fish, spectra line for fishing, smaller reels that offer the stopping and cranking power for big fish and the list goes on, were all started here.

This is not about what is a better reel, lever vs star it's about having the right gear for the job your trying to get done. If you can't see where lever drag reels have their place, well thats ok. But, for me I use both types of reels and each has it's advantages and it's short falls.

[wallacewt]

hey alto mare
you should try a lever drag,
then you could get rid of all that fairy floss

[Mandelstam]

Hi Karl,

Reading your questions, and answering as such. The repeatability of the drag settings on a lever drag are the biggest benefit over the humble yet robust star drag. Once you have set the drag at 'strike' for a given line load, then you have the infinite repeatability that you will never get from any star drag – which if you are fishing in line class, and particularly lower line classes can be the difference between success and failure.

As to actual mechanisms, generally the lever drags will offer more available drag pressure for a given size of reel (spool diameter), though they are a precision instrument, and do not respond well to abusive treatment.

We fish a lot is surf casting, and have found that the lever drags in most models that we use out cast the star drags, and it doesn't take a lot of changes or 'angler education' to change up to lever drag reels and get the benefit of the better free spool availability – a product of the drag mechanism.

Lastly, generally the drag materials are better in lever drag reels, as well as the bearings – the manufacturers are looking for better quality in the product. Star drags however can very quickly be brought up to the more effective materials with aftermarket drags and bearings (Carbontex and Boca).

The above are some generalities, as there are older lever drag reels that benefit from upgrades to the drag material, while very few star drag reels come fitted as standard with the likes of carbontex washers or high quality bearings.

I fish with both for pleasure and at competition levels, both have their place, if I'm standing chest deep on a sand bank for a couple of hours I would immediately opt for the star drag (with up grades), while if I'm on the beach looking for maximum distance, the lever drag reels are my first choice. It is very much a matter of horses for courses. If I was to run a charter boat, i would probably opt for star drags, as I do when I am guiding clients on the beach – they are just so 'idiot-proof', and will take a lot of punishment.

We had a competition at the weekend, loads of clubs all competing against each other, my club with just 7 anglers landed over 977kgs (nearly 1 ton) of sharks in 7 hours, of the 7 anglers that caught in the club 4 were using star drags, 3 were using lever drags. No reels failed on the day, nearly all the star drags had been up graded.

At the end of the end of the day – a hand line would probably be the most effective in a lot of situations – zero mechanical issues, then we would have a forum discussing the virtues of different gloves and gloves treatment??? We all like our technology, it is just a matter of what level of technology you wish to work with – we dare not discuss fishing rods bamboo, cane, split cane, glass fibre, low tech carbon or high tech carbon.

You pays your money, and takes your choice!!!

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Thanks for a very informative answer!

Regarding hand lines, I have a very strong memory of when I was backpacking the South Pacific and I one day took a stroll down the harbor in a small fishing village in Solomon Islands. One fisherman, in a dug out canoe, had caught a BIG marlin on a hand line. He had managed to get the marlin into the canoe (don't ask me how) and the waterline was maybe an inch from the top of the canoe. The next day the same fisherman brought in a very big shark in the same small canoe. Incredible. It was a humbling experience and you start to to question your own obsession with fishing gear. A line and a hook. Everything else is just makeup. i didn't have any fishing gear myself with me but after that encounter I went to the nearest store and bought some heavy mono, a couple of hooks and a few small sinkers. Wrapped the line on a soda bottle, bought some small bait fish and went fishing. Had a great time! Casting with a bottle is actually quite effective when you get a hang of it.

[basto]

I enjoy my levers and my star drag reels and also my spin reels. All these reels are good for their particular jobs. They would not exist otherwise. When I was a young guy, I had vintage motor cycles and fast modern bikes at the same time, but loved riding all of them for different reasons.
It`s like now I enjoy my recently aquired 40 year old Senators as much as my Jigging Masters. There is room for all of them.

[Alto Mare]

hey alto mare
you should try a lever drag,
then you could get rid of all that fairy floss

...bad when someone knows how much you like them, i'm not aswering this one

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

My only issue with your line of thinking, SoCalAngler, is that the numbers just don't matter. It is sort of like the 30-06 or 300 Win mag argument, if the elk is dead who cares if the bullet was traveling at 2700 or 3000 fps? If you land the fish who cares if you were using 10 or 11.5 pounds of drag? Numbers are great in the lab  and for comparing apples to apples, but when the fight is on they just don't really have a lot of influence. I have never not gotten extra drag on it time with a star drag. I have (30 years ago) snapped fish clean off from flipping a lever to far.

Ron

To each his own Ron and I don't know where you fish or what you fish for, but for me if I have a fish of a lifetime or possible world record on my line I want to know exactly where my drags are set. Will this happen often? No, but if or when it does I'll be ready. Now 1.5 pounds over 10 lbs comming off the reel is nothing but if you have out 200-300 yards of line out and your spool is much smaller in diameter that 11.5 pounds of drag has increased much more.

Two years ago down in Baja I landed a 250 lb Thresher on 50 lb test. World record? Nope not even close. Can you pull hard on 50 lb test? Yep, but how hard can you pull before breaking your line when your almost spooled in about 20 seconds? Mouth hooked Threshers get pretty PO'ed you know. Landing that fish stand up style without a harness from a 21' center console in under 20 minutes means you have to put maximum presure on the fish from start to finish. Everything must be right, connections, hook, gear, angler and boat operation. Fish of a lifetime? Just one of many and with God willing there will be many more.

As far as people using too heavy of gear for the fishing their doing well thats them. I'm a Southern California fisherman, where big fish on smaller gear is what we do. The west coast has always and will be on the cutting edge of fishing. First recognized fishing club in America, widely available aftermarket upgrade parts for Penn reels, stand up style of fishing for big fish, spectra line for fishing, smaller reels that offer the stopping and cranking power for big fish and the list goes on, were all started here.

This is not about what is a better reel, lever vs star it's about having the right gear for the job your trying to get done. If you can't see where lever drag reels have their place, well thats ok. But, for me I use both types of reels and each has it's advantages and it's short falls.

x2 and just bought a torque spinning reel mainly for popping but will be using it for shore fishing too. for me as long as i'm fishing then i'm having a blast... 

[saltydog]

It's ok I don't fish for anything over a thousand pounds anymore so I guess my star drag reels can be put away for now.

[Dominick]

I'm not going to stir up a hornet's nest here by asking what is the preferred drag system but I am a bit curious to the differences, mechanics wise, between the two.

Karl: Who are you kidding?  Look at the hornet's nest you started.  My vote is I like them both.  BTW stop biting your fingernails.  Dominick

[Mandelstam]

I'm not going to stir up a hornet's nest here by asking what is the preferred drag system but I am a bit curious to the differences, mechanics wise, between the two.

Karl: Who are you kidding?  Look at the hornet's nest you started.  My vote is I like them both.  BTW stop biting your fingernails.  Dominick

Haha! I was actually reading a very special and exciting rebuild thread here when that picture was taken. Couldn't sleep for two days afterwards. I think it was one of Sal's double dog adventures.


/K