Setting Drag To Another Level-Torque Method

[treidm]

Thank you wallacewt! (Corrected, my sincere apologies)

Glad I found this site, will learn much

....Reid

[wallacewt]

wallaceWC no no
wallaceWT

[BassMatt]

Welcome as well treidm

I think your line estimating logic will hold true if the radius of line on the spool never changed, but it's more complex than that to figure it with a mathematical approach. It's more of a parabolic rate than equal proportions.

The spool will fill faster with line when you start to fill the spool than when it gets closer to being full, it will fill slower.

Generally, using a proportion or ratio method will get you in the "area" if you're working with a relatively full spool of line already (80%-100% total capacity.)

I have found that the manufacturer reports relatively accurate ratios and line retrieves (at top of spool), because these can be calculated easily with a few design figures. I have yet to believe the truth in the capacity fill, max drag weight, and MSRP.

[wallacewt]

no worries treidm
ive been got at,shot at,pot at and slung sh!!!!!! at all my life mate.
enjoy your stay.

[treidm]

Welcome as well treidm

I think your line estimating logic will hold true if the radius of line on the spool never changed, but it's more complex than that to figure it with a mathematical approach. It's more of a parabolic rate than equal proportions.

The spool will fill faster with line when you start to fill the spool than when it gets closer to being full, it will fill slower.

Generally, using a proportion or ratio method will get you in the "area" if you're working with a relatively full spool of line already (80%-100% total capacity.)

I have found that the manufacturer reports relatively accurate ratios and line retrieves (at top of spool), because these can be calculated easily with a few design figures. I have yet to believe the truth in the capacity fill, max drag weight, and MSRP.

Thanks for welcome....

If you are referring to the line retrieve, the whole reason I try to do a mean calculation is due to exactly that.
You could never know inches per crank on a diameter that constantly changes.
Same goes for drag, it increases as the spool diameter decreases. I can't remember but seems like with 1/3 line left, drag almost doubles, would have to look it up in my notes.

Note: With offshore fishing, you can have less than half or more line off of spool, so not sure if 80% of line on spool would cover it?
What I tried to use was average spool diameter

Probably the more useful way would link up to what yardage is out when fishing, what yardage ave is out on longest run, then find most used retrieve rate for how you fish

I have enjoyed looking at your pdf file, nice work!

....Reid

Edit grammar/spelling

[BassMatt]

Reid,

One thing to keep in mind is that all reels are not created equal.
Based on my spools, the pattern will generally do the following and for other similar spool types:

                 Full Spool   Midpoint Spool                 1/3 Spool             Near Empty Spool
Line Retrieve    100%      Reduced 75%      Reduced 66%   Reduced 50% (Half)
Drag Weight   100%      Increase 50%      Increase 66%   Increase 100% (Double)

For the mathematical approach to solve for line capacity, see image below:

All this logic is great and fun to use as a guide and to think about and talk about, but nothing replaces the experience gained from practical use over time.

Thanks for the compliment on the Torque Method Drag Study. It consumed nearly all my holiday season with a challenge that would not leave me alone. But it's finally done (for now)! Let us know on any of your findings, its great information to compare too.

[Dominick]

no worries treidm
ive been got at,shot at,pot at and slung sh!!!!!! at all my life mate.
enjoy your stay.

Hey Wallace:  I know we have a common language but I don't know what "pot at" means.  The rest of that sentence is easy.  Dominick

[treidm]

BassMatt

For a different approach with dimensions used:

Removed formula, because I posted it all bass-ackwards and left out a part

I should have taken more time to post correctly.....


Yes, it is fun thinking about all this, but none of it can be exact
Never takes into account how tight or spread you use for laying line on, lines won't be consistent in diameters etc.... But it's fun

They are just approximations, but close enough

Have you done anymore testing with drag setting?
I'm interested in any findings you have....

....Reid

[BassMatt]

Reid,

How accurate or close does your equation get?
Your original equation gets about with 25 yards to what I'm used to seeing on my reel.
The new equation you posted yields something totally different?
Maybe it's the combination of different units, not sure??? But I'm having a hard time following the logic and units.
Here is what I have and maybe you can help explain it better:
Spool specs:
OD=35mm
ID=16mm
W=20mm

I know I can fill my spool with 0.008 in thick line with one box at 125yds. The spools OD when filled is 28mm, what would the capacity be if another line thickness is used using your logic?

I have not done anything else with the drag study other than the latest report (1.4 on Jan 1) attached in the original post of this topic and some of the other notes posted throughout this whole discussion. The only thing else to compare is what happens on the pole and how that is affected. I have two scenarios: A rod with ceramic micro guides to a saltwater rod with regular and roller bearing guides. Might get a chance to look at it this weekend.

Dominick.......... nice way to keep the humor still alive through all this other language going on.

no worries treidm
ive been got at,shot at,pot at and slung sh!!!!!! at all my life mate.
enjoy your stay.

Hey Wallace:  I know we have a common language but I don't know what "pot at" means.  The rest of that sentence is easy.  Dominick

Matt

[Dominick]

Hey Matt:  yes it is humorous, but it was a serious question.  I really don't know what it means and Google was no help .  The references to "pot" in Australian slang was to Marijuana, size of a beer glass or the classic referral as in "get off the pot."  So I need Wallace to chime in.  Dominick

[wallacewt]

to take a"pot at" is to take a "pot shot"
eg;normally a punch when your not looking.it doesnt have to land,and doesnt matter if it does,its still a pot shot.it can also be verbal,object thrown,or a challenge.a bit similar to "forget about it" in usa but nothing like it.

[Killerbug]

Hi,

Thanks Matt, for the drag study, you are a true nerd!.

I think your method would find use for lab testing drags, but a better connection between the torque wrench and the reels are needed. But with little effort this can be easily be made I guess. 

[Dominick]

to take a"pot at" is to take a "pot shot"
eg;normally a punch when your not looking.it doesnt have to land,and doesnt matter if it does,its still a pot shot.it can also be verbal,object thrown,or a challenge.a bit similar to "forget about it" in usa but nothing like it.

Wallace.  A punch when not looking is call a "sucker punch."  George Bernard Shaw said: England and America are two countries separated by a common language.  The same can be said for Australia and America.  Keep it up.  I really enjoy the colorful slang.  Ta.  Dominick 

[treidm]

Matt:

LOL, I'm still trying to figure out your equation and figure a way to enter it into an excel document, so I can compare results

Could you also tell me the line retrieve in inches & gear ratio for reel in question, thanks
When you say average spool width in formula, that would be half of spool width, correct?

Reid

This is fun, only wish I had more time to fiddle with.....

Oh yeah, it's not you, I was tired and screwed up with my example, I'm not extremely computer savvy, I'll have to redo...

[BassMatt]

Reid,

Try the following and see if it works in excel:

The blue is your cell spot. Result in yards.
=((spool width inches/((COS(RADIANS(30)))*2*line thickness inches))*((3.14* line thickness inches *((POWER(spool od inches,2))-(POWER(spool id inches,2)))/(4*(POWER(line thickness inches,2)))))/12)/3

Line retrieve= Spool Diameter (in) x Reel Ratio x 3.14
Or
27.7=1.38 x 6.4 x 3.14
Ratio is 6.4 or 7.1
The manufacture states the line retrieve at 27.5 inches, which is for simple reel comparison

The average spool width is this if you're using calipers on the spool. Most spools will not be the same from top (full line) to bottom (empty line):
Measure width of top of spool=21
Measure width of bottom spool=19
The average width of spool would be =20

Don't sweat what happen on your example, I have made some errors on this topic (I'm sure I might have a few more lingering), but caught them and corrected them. Since then I have tried to really look at what I'm trying to explain and make sure I'm as correct the best I can present. MM