Versa Drag System ?

[day0ne]

I think you are all overthinking this. There are situations, such as fishing for king mackerel, where a low amount of maximum drag is desirable. With the Versa drag, you can limit the maximum drag available without buying a special reel such as an Accurate Lite Line Special. This makes the reel more versatile.

Overthinking is why we come here  

With a lever drag, you need to choose reel with a cam that has  a specific drag range.  But the Versa Drag is a star drag system.  Just use the max configuration.   If you want a lower drag, just don't turn the star as many times.   If you want to use the same reel for another purpose requiring higher drag, you don't have to take it apart to rearrange the washers.  And the drag will be smoother, even at lower settings.  This makes the reel more versatile without a screwdriver and a wrench  

-J

If want to eliminate any chance of applying too much drag in a lite line situation, the Versa drag makes sense. It stops you from making a mistake in the heat of battle. You don't see this as much on the West Coast but it is more common on the East and Gulf coasts. Lite drag is very common in tournament king fishing. No room for mistakes.

[Brewcrafter]

And while Jurelometer brought up the subject of drag cam profiles in lever drags (which is a dark art unto itself) there is also the option on many lever drag reels of one (or more!) adjustable stop points on the drag quadrant that require depressing a button to shift beyond wherever the stop is set. You still have max drag potential, you just have a couple of check points to pass before you get there. - john

[oc1]

It has not been that long ago that there was a discussion of Adam's Motive Fabrication eared carbon fiber washers and modified main gears.  I was not paying much attention but think there were two instances of carbon fiber ears being broken off under pressure.  Adam has not made them available for a while now so we will probably never know any more than that.  Sal was a fan of Adam and his products.  I wish both of them were here to comment.

If there was a larger adjustment range from zero to lock down could you use the fine control over clamping pressure to reduce or avoid the stickiness?

No.  Increasing clamping  pressure leads to stickiness.  If you need more clamping pressure for the same amount of drag it probably will be stickier.
-J

Yes, but my point was that being able to fine tune the clamping pressure by increasing the adjustment range in the star may let you get closer to stickiness without it actually becoming too sticky.

OK, we cannot dance around this other question any longer.  Dry drag or greased drag?  

-steve

[RowdyW]

Greased drag, it reduces stickiness at start up. But is for CF drags.     Rudy

[Mic]

 I see the benefits in having a greased drag system. Water damage prevention being one reason for.

You know, I've been looking at as many drag stack pictures as I can find. One thing I noticed that most fiber washers being replaced from reels are as smooth as the metal washers. Almost glazed but a flat smooth surface across the entire surface.

Now, I've never opened a brand new reel to look at it's drag stack. Do manufactures send them out with flat surface fiber washers ?

What I'm getting at is that CF Washers are not a flat smooth surface across the entire surface. Just guessing, but it would appear that about only 60-65% of the CF washer is actually making contact with the steel washer when compressed. Can you imaging your trucks break pads having that design ?
Is there a CF washer that is polished smooth across the entire surface to give you 95 - 100% contact ?

Maybe if a washer stack had a mixture of smooth CF washers and Rough CF washers in the same stack ? Maybe the pressure differential would be more VERSAtile ? 


When I read Alan's pectoral on the Calcutta 400, damn nice pectoral Alan, he pointed out because of the thickness of the CF washers that you need to bend the eared washer ears down in order to keep them in the grove of the main gear. But the washers that are being replaced are glass smooth. Alan also mentioned reusing the old metal washers and being careful cleaning them because they will break easy. But the CF washers going back in are rough or abrasive looking. But again, I don't see how 100% contact is made between the CF washer and the steel washer ?
Would the new CF washers break the existing metal washers if too much drag was applied ?

Just an observation 

Mic

[Tiddlerbasher]

CF drag washers may look slightly "flat" or "shiny" but they still have a coefficient of friction - ie they will still work. A quick rub with 'your solvent of choice' (not really necessary but whatever ) and a re-grease and you are good to go. It works, and has worked for years, don't over think it.

Quote:
When I read Alan's pectoral on the Calcutta 400, damn nice pectoral Alan, he pointed out because of the thickness of the CF washers that you need to bend the eared washer ears down in order to keep them in the grove of the main gear. But the washers that are being replaced are glass smooth. Alan also mentioned reusing the old metal washers and being careful cleaning them because they will break easy. But the CF washers going back in are rough or abrasive looking. But again, I don't see how 100% contact is made between the CF washer and the steel washer ?
Would the new CF washers break the existing metal washers if too much drag was applied ?

Where is Alan's 'pectoral on the Calcutta 400' - I know where my pectorals are
Oh and CF washers will never break the existing metal washers.

[oc1]

I don't open a reel until I have to.  But, I can't remember removing used CF washers that were not slick or glazed from wear and embedded grease.  Maybe it's embedded grease mixed with debris?  The only reason to remove them is to scrub, and clean, and raise the grain a little.

Since the CF is flexible but squashed between to metal washers, I don't see how it could be made any flatter.  There has been discussion here (Mo65 I think) about making the metal washers flatter by lapping them.  Because of the way the metal washers are stamped, there may be a slight raised lip on one side and rounded edges on the other side.

[SteveL]

I don't open a reel until I have to.  But, I can't remember removing used CF washers that were not slick or glazed from wear and embedded grease.  Maybe it's embedded grease mixed with debris?  The only reason to remove them is to scrub, and clean, and raise the grain a little.

Since the CF is flexible but squashed between to metal washers, I don't see how it could be made any flatter.  There has been discussion here (Mo65 I think) about making the metal washers flatter by lapping them.  Because of the way the metal washers are stamped, there may be a slight raised lip on one side and rounded edges on the other side.

Not to mention a slight cupping deformation from the stamping process.  You can sometimes see this on the washer from where the drag washer rubs more on the inner diameter.  When I see this, I mark the washer with a sharpie, put 800 grit wet/dry on a mirror and lightly take off the high spots.  I follow that with 1500 grit wet/dry and 3000 grit trizact.

The washers don't need to be flat, but the high spot should be a flat band near the outer diameter, never the inner diameter. 

[oldmanjoe]

  What if the washers are cupped ,but have a enough spring to flatten out under   clamping force .
Variable surfaces ?

[SteveL]

 What if the washers are cupped ,but have a enough spring to flatten out under   clamping force .
Variable surfaces ?

If the clamping pressure flattens the cupped washers, more pressure would be applied to the CF drag washer by the high spots, less by the flattened spots, and that would be undesirable.  

[RowdyW]

If the metal washers are cupped I just arrange them to all be in the same direction when assembling them. If they are heavily cupped  I discard them & install new ones.  If you want to take the time to lap them flat that's fine to get a tiny bit more out of the drags. If you are in the repair/service of reels I am sure your customer will not want an extra hour or two added to their bill unless it's a custom  job. If you want to do it for yourself, your time is your own.      Rudy

[Tiddlerbasher]

x2 Rudy. Stack 'em all in the same direction it works fine.
I use to lap the metals flat - Not anymore - life's too short. The difference is sometimes measurable but minimal.
If you want ultra flat washers pay a visit to one of the online suppliers like Bryan or Dawn  - and have beer while waiting 'til they are delivered.

[Mic]

 Yeah,
I do tend to over think things sometimes. That's just me

So, I've learned what the Penn Versa Drag system is. I understand the concept, just don't understand why. If any reel is capable of up to X pounds of drag pressure, said same reel is capable of 0 pounds of drag pressure. Doesn't matter 0 - 30, it's still capable of the minimum or the maximum. Don't think I'll be using an ABU 5000 to hunt yellow fin tuna or yellow cat flatheads. I'll be choosing a different reel/different drag for different species. Pretty sure you all do to.

I've never given any thought to lapping/polishing metal drag washers when rebuilding/replacing drag washers. I certainly will now. The concept of high spots coming in contact with the CF washer first doesn't give complete surface contact. If it's concaved on the front, it's convex on the back. Condition would determine if it goes in the reel or in the trash.

I tend to sharpen a lot of knives for myself and others. I like using Arkansas oil stones. Less scratches in the blade. Soft stone can take metal down pretty quick. Hard stone polishes the edge. Bull hide leather and some aluminum oxide powder will make a razor edge. I have a couple of old stones used for straight razors and scalpels. Rarely used really.

Just wonder if a glass smooth surface of a metal drag washer is preferable to a metal drag washer with a little grit and bite to it against a greased CF washer? Yep, over thinking it again....

Mic

Mic

[oc1]

Just wonder if a glass smooth surface of a metal drag washer is preferable to a metal drag washer with a little grit and bite to it against a greased CF washer? Yep, over thinking it again....
Mic

I was wondering the same thing.  But, instead of an Arkansas stone I was thinking a belt sander.

[Mic]

 What if the washers are cupped ,but have a enough spring to flatten out under   clamping force .
Variable surfaces ?

If the clamping pressure flattens the cupped washers, more pressure would be applied to the CF drag washer by the high spots, less by the flattened spots, and that would be undesirable.  

Yes Sir
Agree completely

I would think the amount of pressure needed to flatten out a metal washer would be counter intuitive to the desired drag force. The weakest link in your fishing reel would be found pretty quick