Versa Drag System ?

[Maxed Out]

The versa drag setup in the 113mtl eliminates friction from one side of the bottom drag washer. Now I understand why Alan said versa drag was a step in the wrong direction

That is not entirely accurate.  If you compare with a standard drag stack, each carbon fiber drag washer has only one side that contributes to drag.  In the versa drag setup all but the first contribute both sides as drag surfaces.  The first one can not contribute two sides, it just functions as a standard drag washer with one drag surface. Stating it eliminates friction from one side really should be restated as eliminating one side as a friction surface (i.e. drag surface).   You can't eliminate something that never existed and could not exist.

If you want to play with the drag stack to lighten the drag, you can.  But if you messed with a standard drag stack like that you'd have metal sliding on metal if you weren't careful how you stacked it.   But no mater how you stack the versa drag, you can't break it.  

A stock 5 stack 113h does have friction on both sides of each drag washer, especially when reeling on dead hanging weight. Versa drag eliminates the bottom washer from friction on one side by having it keyed to the gear. That's all i was saying

[alantani]

yup!!!   

[SteveL]

A stock 5 stack 113h does have friction on both sides of each drag washer, especially when reeling on dead hanging weight. Versa drag eliminates the bottom washer from friction on one side by having it keyed to the gear. That's all i was saying

I think the issue is semantics.   The carbon fiber washers all have friction on both sides whether they contribute to the drag or not.  We are concerned with surfaces that slide and can contribute to the drag.  All cf washers in a standard drag stack that is turning have static friction on one side and sliding friction on the other.  Sliding friction is less that static friction so once one side starts moving, the other side will stay stuck.   So only one side contributes to drag as a friction surface.  

All five cf washers in a standard drag stack contribute one friction surface each.  In versa drag, the bottom washer still contributes one friction surface, and all the others contribute two (unless you rearrange the stack so they can't slide).   There is no way for the bottom washer to contribute more than one friction surface, regardless of whether its round, eared, greased, dry or glued to the bottom of the gear

It is the same as in the example of the round cf washers glued to the slotted washers.  One side of the the cf washer was going to stick and the other slide anyway, so gluing one side to a washer (or keying it to a gear) is simply deciding which side is going to slide.
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[SteveL]

yup!!!  

I see.  I don't really approve of weird drag stacks, but I've seen a few where people put the metal washers in the wrong order by mistake, and either they got little or no drag or the star can loosen under drag.   With only two kinds of washers, if a versa drag is stacked funny, someone must have done it on purpose, and it at least still functions to some degree.

But if Barney only puts one bullet in his six shooter, I'm not sure I have a problem with that.  

(Edit:   Since this is an international forum,  I should provide some background on the Barney reference above.  Barney Fife (a fictional character) was an inept deputy sheriff on the Andy Griffith Show from the 1960s.  Due to a habit of misfiring his gun, he was only permitted one bullet to be carried in his pocket.  If you want to turn the equivalent of a 7 stack drag to the equivalent of a single drag washer  (like barney's six shooter with one bullet), well that's OK )

[Tiddlerbasher]

I'm sorry Alan - I don't have a clue what you are talking about

[SteveL]

I'm sorry Alan - I don't have a clue what you are talking about

I think just above he was agreeing with my previous message regarding his chief complaint with versa drag:

i always strive to increase drag surface area.  maybe i'm missing something, but i see no reason to ever deliberately decrease it.   

Alan,

I think I see now.   I believe your chief complaint with versa drag is that people can swap around the washers in odd configurations, effectively dropping from the equivalent of a 7 stack to a 5 stack, 3 stack or 1 stack.   This may be the reduction of drag surface area you mention, while for me it is a reduction of drag surfaces (area not being a factor here).

Within limits I don't have a big problem with some people wanting lighter drag, but this would probably be best handled by adjusting the star drag, changing the spring washers or at most removing (not rearranging) one drag washer so that the star drag gives less compressive force.