Stainless Gear Set for 113H

[Makule]

I did contact a manufacturer in China via a USA rep.  Sent a set of gears for the company to look at and take specs from (I did get the gears back after several months).  Was advised that the cost for the initial set, up to about 10 was in the neighborhood of $250 because of the cost of setup.  Apparently, the gear hobbs are special sizes and that's the biggest cost.  They recoup their cost by the cost of the equipment prorated over the number of sets.  After that, the cost comes down drastically.

I was willing to go with the 50 set price, but somehow the USA contact felt it wasn't worth the bother and just cancelled the whole thing.

My sense is that cutting the helical gears is the costly part.  If the gears were just straight cut, those should be much more readily available as stock items (I'm checking into some of that presently).  Of course, there would need to be some finishing on the lathe, and milling to cut the slot to engage to the spool.  The gears wouldn't be as smooth/quiet as helicals as well.  Still, they should do the job.

[Robert Janssen]

It's not that we can't find a gear shop that will make them it's high minimun numbers.  Can will you cut gear stock that we can then finish off on a standard lathe?

Ah, i see... Hmm, thats too bad.

(kinda sad in a way- you see all kinds of posts about unemployment and  the downfall of American manufacturing, and then when you have a job that needs doing, nobody can / wants to do it. WTH?)

About the gear stock, thats an interesting idea. Good thinking. I like to recall though, that that sort of thing often turns out to be a lot of work anyway, not leastly since subsequent turning operations inevitably form burrs and stuff on the back side of each gear tooth. Besides, there isn't much to hold on to in the lathe (i guess you were thinking of cutting the bar stock into gear-sized slugs) and you would lose planar reference too. Unless you held the whole bar in the lathe and worked from that i suppose.

My hobber is very small, by the way. Very precise, but small. Maximum length of job is like three inches, and it doesn't do helical gears. It has been on my project list to build a larger hobbing apparatus that does do helicals, but it seems like i'll never get around to it.

About the specs, well maybe that is part of the problem too- maybe folks get too fixated on following the original recipe (what are they, 32 DP with a 14.5* PA and maybe 5* helix?) to realize that maybe module 0.8 will do just as well. Some folks have no imagination these days.

I don't remember what i used on the 115. Probably just straight module 0.8, at a ratio similar to what it was originally. Really, there isn't much room to move around in there.

(gear ratios are no great mystery really- they are made up of the size of one gear divided by the other, that's all. The size of the first one is dictated by what fits in the sideplate.) And, this needs to work at a given center distance.

I don't know the measurements of the reels involved. (114? Or 113? Or didn't i post once before that they were the same? I don't remember. But i think the center distance on the 115 was 1" (very difficult to measure accurately, btw, because of the way the reel is built) and the biggest gear that could fit in it was about 1.5" OD.

I'm not in my shop very often nowadays anymore. Maybe once a month. I happen to be there now though. Maybe i'll look into it later.

So who could do this? Oh i dunno... Has anybody asked Cal? Or what about that fellow Alan knows? Maybe he has a cnc mill with two interactive spindles. Then he could teach it to hob gears.

I'm gonna go have a beer. Typing posts on an iPhone takes forever.

Doc.
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[Keta]

Your 3" limit will be tough to get around.  There is a gear shop in Portland, OR that can do the entire gears, If Dom can't get it done I'll drive up and get something started.  I tried getting some cut in Thailand and there was no intrest in doing less than 1000 pieces.

[broadway]

If any of you guys want to have the gears made go for it. China is a great place for having parts manufactured if its not a precise part. There aren't as many precision manufacturers of gears even in the US, as one would think. Also, if you're going to do the deburring and clean up then I hope you have the time and the passion for it.... I have the passion, however lack the time. Lastly, as most of you are, I too am a perfectionist and don't believe spur gears are as quiet, strong, or as durable as helicals so I don't see why I'd have them manufactured. Now if I was looking to make more money I would go with spurs but that's not what this is all about. I will continue on my helical path, but I don't want anyone to think they can't go and have them made or attempt to have them made properly. I would even buy a couple sets (if precisely made of course) from whoever was actually successful. Good luck!
Dom

[Makule]

I would go with spurs but that's not what this is all about

For me, the gears are just parts of tools.  Spur gears can crank the fish in as good as helicals, albeit a little less smoothly and quietly.  Don't think it makes a meaningful difference for me.  My recollection is that Penn did use spur gears in the early versions of the Senators.  Probably have a few of those gears around, either in the parts box or in old reels, that weren't even SS, just hardened steel.

113H 4:1 main gear is 1.482 OD, 48 teeth, face width is .260, tooth depth (root circle about 1.260) is about .060, overall gear height is .475, recess depth is .350, major ID is 1.075, minor ID (sleeve hole) is .497; two .125 holes drilled to depth on center with major ID.

Helical angle appears to be 7 degrees.

Pinion is .434 OD, 12 teeth.  Overall face height is .507, pinion shaft hole is about .215, .065 width ring at about .055 from one end, .225 slot milled across face to depth of about .01. 

All dimensions in inches.

If anyone tries China, hope you have better luck than me.  I thought I was going to get some samples cut and then the guy just crapped out.

[Robert Janssen]

Oh, okay.

Thanks for the accurate numbers there, Makule.

I'll try to give it some thought when i get a chance.

.

[Black Pearl]

I might be able to get this SS PENN 113H main and pinion gears. When dobrobill (Bill) told me about it, I will go to my source to see if he can produce these 2 parts. It might not be $25.00 per set. It could be little more.

I will update this post when my info is available.

[broadway]

   For the past 10 months I've been seeking manufacturers for creating new and improved ss gears for our beloved Penn reels.  I have sent out several sets of hard to find gears, spent 100's of hours of time on design, pricing, stainless steel selecting, and finding precision USA manufacturing.  I am in the last stages, and have received a quote that is "near" doable... but I'm done with my work on the gears... have at it guys.  Some may say, "what took so long... someone beat ya to it?"  That's not true at all!
Someone did come out with a gear set and others will probably start to come out with more as our members' cries are being heard from sea to shining sea.  There's one problem with these gear sets.  The sellers won't care what stainless it is, they won't care about the quality control, etc... they care about lining their pockets.  That's what I didn't care so much about.  Of course, you have to make some money when shelling out all that upfront cash, your time, and your risk.  The difference is that was my last concern.  This site is my home away from home, and I consider most of you my family, however I'm left with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.  I will always be one for tinkering, learning, and paying it forward, but next time if I run with an idea I'm shutting my mouth.  I understand I didn't invent ss gears or even have a plan to ever produce them until I heard you guys ask for them so often I said let me give it a shot and see if I can contribute. 
   I love this site and all its members that contribute, appreciate, and have the same passion as I do, but this time I'm a little frustrated.
Hope you understand, and I'm sorry in advance for the sub par gears you will be seeing,
Dom

[Bryan Young]

Dom, if yours are American made, I will buy it!!!

[broadway]

I appreciate that Bryan...That's the only way I would do it...quality!
Dom

[Alto Mare]

You can count on me .

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

Dom, if yours are American made, I will buy it!!!

me too!...

[john2244]

Dom,
If you change your mind and go forward with this project I will buy few sets.
John

[broadway]

    Thanks guys... I will speak to the last manufacturer and if I can make their numbers doable then I will have a batch made. I don't wanna give up, but I won't be able to come in at the same price as the china made gears. They wouldn't be much more but I'm concerned that people who don't know about gears and materials will only look at price. I personally don't live my life like that but I know many do and many are on a tight budget with the economy, so their first thought is price. It would be between 5 and 10 extra but I would guarantee that they are quality! I'll keep you guys posted, and if it can be done for a better price I will pass that on.
I have had a lot of help from some really great members/people on here and appreciate the support and advice... It may just be enough to keep me at this thing. I'm sick of paying high dollar prices for sub par gears outsourced to make huge profits ... I know we all are!
Thanks crew,
Dom

[Makule]

How about you give us a "ball park" number on the cost for each set, and then members can tell you how many they would be willing to purchase at that cost?  I know the manufacturers will quote in various quantities and prorate the initial tooling cost over the number produced, so it's a sliding scale.  So, maybe assume 50 sets, and then 100 sets.  If we can get a minimum number of potential orders we should be able to figure out a rough ball part cost per set and then anything over that would help to further reduce the cost per set.  Just an idea that I had to think about myself when inquiring with different manufacturers.