1+7 Drag Stack in a 114H Senator

[George4741]

As I mentioned earlier, I initially used some #59 carbontex washers to complete my 1+7 drag stack, but I wasn't happy with their appearance after reducing the diameter.  I've replaced them with some #45C carbontex washers.  The #45C diameter is slightly smaller than the original HT-100's, but not noticeably so.  I had to enlarge the holes so they would fit on the gear sleeve.  I also replaced 3 keyed and 2 eared metal washers with Smoothdrag's 114H washers.  I used 1 Penn eared and 1 Penn keyed washers to finish off the stack.  The Smoothdrag metals are the same thickness as the Penn metal washers, so the only advantage they offer (if any) is that they are ground flat.

Anyway, I've decided on this as the final drag configuration for my 114H.

George

[Alto Mare]

Anyway, I've decided on this is the final drag configuration for my 114H.

George

George, I'm hoping that you don't mean that you're done experimenting  .

[George4741]

George, I'm hoping that you don't mean that you're done experimenting  .

No, and I'm not disappearing anytime soon, either.   Since I won't be fishing with this reel for a while, I may rig it up to my truck and do some 50 yard runs.  I'll let you know.

[Harry]

Sal i will most likley only be able to change the gear sleave from brass to stainless.

[Alto Mare]

That would also be all that I would do on that reel. Maybe Lee could make us some ss dogs for it, but I would keep just one dog in it. These are nice reels and happy at around 8 to 10 Lb. Later Harry. Sal

[Keta]

No, and I'm not disappearing anytime soon

Good, I'm blaming you for what I'm doing to (with) my 349H drag stacks and I'm planning on attempting to get a 5+1 stack in a 60 size main gear this fall when things start to slow down.  The supper thin metal washers (thinner than .035) might be a problem but 60 gears have a small ID.

[George4741]

Good, I'm blaming you for what I'm doing to (with) my 349H drag stacks and I'm planning on attempting to get a 5+1 stack in a 60 size main gear this fall when things start to slow down.  The supper thin metal washers (thinner than .035) might be a problem but 60 gears have a small ID.

I like that idea, Lee.  And it might make my next dream possible.   That would be a 1+7 drag stack in my black 4/0.  

I know what you're thinking, Sal.  But it has steel gears and I promise not to push it too hard....
  George

[Keta]

I'm thinking I'll try it on one of my 100 and black 4/0 after I put the irrigation system away for the winter.  Both have steel gears and I think a 5+1 will fit.  ABU 5600 washers are the right OD and the ones I measured run .018"-.020" thick.

[Alto Mare]

[I know what you're thinking, Sal.  But it has steel gears and I promise not to push it too hard....
  George

I'm for it George, we need to know on how far we can push these reels. Don't ever give up buddy .

[Robert Janssen]

Strangely, i found myself reading this. I usually don't pay attention to this sort of thing.

By a series of coincidences, this subject sort of came up over at my place the other day.

Digging through an old box full of junk, when i stumbled upon the cadaver of an old 9/0 Senator in pieces; it must have been there for ten years at least. Surprisingly, it seemed to be complete, so i decided to assemble it.

Poked it together with the original stack of three thick drag washers, which will do, but found myself thinking again that really, the drag stack would be far more effective if one did away with the floating friction washers and used a series of eared friction washers instead, since that renders the eared metal washers superfluous and allows the available space to be utilized more effectively. Which is what Penn did with the Versa-Drag.

I'm not really a fan of ears on washers, since i generally find them a pain in the butt to make. So i was thinkin' that really, a far easier shape to cut, and likely much stronger, would be a hexagon, or maybe even better, a dodegon.

Sorta like this:


So far so good... If i chose a friction material say, 1 mm thick, and a series of metal washers of equal thickness, there would be room for a dozen or so in the main gear. That is good, since it provides about 66% more drag surface area than the usual floating friction washer arrangement.

Not bad.

So, i got curious and actually went to that Scott's Penn Parts site you guys are always talking about, where i found that the six-eared drag washers for several of the Torque reels are the same size as some of the GS reels too. And, as near as i can tell, are really close in size to the ones used in the 115L... which happen to be the same as the ones in the 114H, which this thread is about.

Hmm... In that case, i wonder if it would work to..

pop over to the lathe and rough out a gear blank of equal size as the Penn 115L main gear


hop on over to the other lathe and bore to size


scamper over to the mill and poke out the six slots


and presto...


...a new gear blank that fits the standard washers from Penn. I didn't cut the gear teeth because i couldn't be bothered to rig up the gear hobbing machine, and besides, i was only wondering if the idea was feasible.

So really, i guess i was thinking that those of you are really interested in this sort of thing, who have access to these reels (i don't have any myself) should take some measurements, or those of you who are familiar with Penn parts, should really check and see if not the main gears, pinions, drag washers, shafts and whatever else can be adapted to play nicely in a Senator 114 or 115.

Hmm... while fiddling about, i also came up with and made an internal hex cartrige adapter that drops into the existing Penn main gear, allowing the use of hexagonal friction washers. The hexagonal profile reduces their effective diameter somewhat however. Can't find the pic. Too bad.

Well... Gotta go.

Doc.

.

[redsetta]

Wow.
You take it to another level Doc.
Wish I had your workshop (and expertise) 
Thanks for the inspiration, Justin

[Bryan Young]

I need a machine shop with gear cutting equipment.

[Alto Mare]

Impressive!
Are you saying that you're also able to cut gear teeth?
Could you give me an idea on how much it would set me back, for you to cut me some ss gears for a 113H as you're showing on your last shot? I have a couple of gears that I could pull out of my reels.
This is some amazing stuff.

[Bryan Young]

You know, if I could make them out of steel and heat treat them for strength, I can deal with coating them with grease for rust prevention.

[George4741]

Wow, Doc, that is definately thinking outside of the box.  It also takes it out of the hands of us amateurs.  Perhaps someday a gear manufacturer such as Accurate will make sets of gears like this.