GETTING STARTED WITH BRAID

[LTM]

Hey Folks,

After years of upgrading my reels Im finally nearing adding braid to my reels. I recogonize this to be a costly endeavor so I will spool up with braid gradually. This will be a learning process for me as well for only a few of my reels have braid on them and only one of those is spooled correctly by accident.

How Ive planned to spool my reels is follow suit as the long range guys do. That is to use solid core braid as my base, connected to hollow core to join the solid braid via hollow to my top shots. This method appeals to me on a couple of levels. First and foremost is economy, and then simplicity of loop 2 loop (L2L) connections. If anyone notices errors/flaws with my procedure please comment for Im new at this. Also, whatever termonology/slang you decide to use please remember that I am not versed so please include some explination from TIME TO TIME. Im not asking that you explain every term just be considerate of my lack of knowledge at the moment.

So,for the first braid weight I plan to utilize the solid > hollow > top shot process with is 40# solid > 60# hollow > top shot. Is this practical AND possible? From what Ive read so far I understand their is a practical limit of how small of line 60# hollow will hold effectively, is 40# solid too small to be held securely by 60# hollow? I also plan to use top shots from 12#-50# with the 60# hollow if possible?

My second question of the moment is; using the same solid > hollow > top shot process. Will 100# hollow SECURELY hold 100# solid braid and 100# mono top shot? Or will I need to bump the hollow braid up to 120# to securely hold the 100# solid braid and 100# topshot?

Lastly, what type of tools does one use to connect the l2l connections? I understand there are several types of needles with pro's and cons to their usage.

Thanx in advance for your assistance,

Leo

[Keta]

Is this practical AND possible?

Yes, slip 3'-4' of the 40# into the 60# and tie an overhand knot close to where it goes in to keep the 40 from sliding out.  I use 40# or 60# hollow for all of my L2L topshots from 20# to 50#.


My second question of the moment is; using the same solid > hollow > top shot process. Will 100# hollow SECURELY hold 100# solid braid and 100# mono top shot? Or will I need to bump the hollow braid up to 120# to securely hold the 100# solid braid and 100# topshot?


100# to 100# works but it's easier and faster to do 100# to 130#.


Lastly, what type of tools does one use to connect the L2L connections? I understand there are several types of needles with pro's and cons to their usage.


To connect them takes a pair of hands and at least one working eye, to make them takes a loop puller (a bent piece of solid wire leader works too), the proper size hollow needle and some 30#-40# solid spectra to serve the connection.

[LTM]

Thanx a million Lee,

The term "serve" was a mystry to me for the longest. I'd seen video's of guys using the bobbin of material/braid to wrap around the connections/termination points, but no one said that this was serving the connection. Until maxpowers defined this for me in another post I was clueless and I had searched this entire section trying to get a clue.

Evidently I only need two sizes of needles. One to thread 60#hollow and one to thread 100# hollow, is that right? Or will the needle size depend on the size of the host line being threaded into the hollow core?

Leo

PS Lee please post a picture of your tennis ball tensioning device when you get a chance. This is fundamental as the needles. Thanx again.

[LTM]

Forgot to ask,

How much hollow braid as a minum length to use as a transition between the solid and the top shot?  Also, is this SOLID > HOLLOW > TOPSHOT method a realistic/practical and effecient/effective method or is there a better method I should deploy?

Leo

[Keta]

My USB ports are now working, I will take a photo tomorrow.

If I use solid I put a multi colored (color change every 30')  "mid shot" on it that is from 150' to 500' depending on the depth I'm fishing.  If it's just for L2L 20' will work.

As for the hollow needle size it's dependent on the mono size not the spectra size.  My servings are 2 10 turn nail knots spaced 1/2" apart.

[maxpowers]

Leo,

Where are in in Socal?  If you want to meet up somewhere one of these days, I will bring some of my stuff and show you what I do for my solid > hollow>loop  and loop<hollow<mono connection.  Only investment I made so far was 2 hollow needles that can do from 20 lbs to 80 lbs test mono.

[Bryan Young]

Hi Leo. I'm a little confused.  And it's probably me.

I would fill the reel with solid braid with about 1/4 in from the top.  Then I would tie a bimini in the solid braid to create the loop on the spool. Then the top shot - I would use the hollow braid to form the loop and secure the mono/fluorocarbon in the hollow braid. Is that what you are saying?

[SoCalAngler]

Leo,

Do an internet search about making L2L connections, there is alot of good stuff out there. Check out Basil's website www.bhptackle.com , You Tube and Mark's site www.Charkbait.com Of course you have to weed through what people are selling but you will get a good idea on what is needed. Just like anything with fishing there are a lot of gizmos and gadgets but most of the time the most basic stuff gets the job done well.

I like to fish my spectra's backing breaking strength at least one step above the mono/fluoro's breaking strength. Going from 40 solid to 60 hollow in order to make loops in the 60 I fully understand as most 50lb and below hollow spectra is a PITA to work with but the lighter 40lb backing is where I'd like my topshot to stay below. So for me that would make my topshots 30lb test and below. Set up like this if there is a breakoff it will most likely happen in the topshot and not deep into the spectra backing where more hollow or solid may need to be added. If that does happen deep into the backing then a new loop will have to be made at the very least. Of course I'm only talking break off's and not saw off's from other anglers, structure or boat/prop rub.

[LTM]

Gentlemen thanx for your comments,

Dont mean to confuse however Im using the wrong terms in place of each other.

Lee, glad to hear you've got USB ports back up. What I meant to ask was, what is the minimum/maximum amount of hollow braid to "serve" between the solid braid and the topshot. My logic see's it as stuffing some solid braid into the hollow on one end. Then some length of hollow braid followed by inserting some length of topshot into the transition piece of hollow braid. Evidently the transition piece of hollow braid can be hundreds of feet, however what would one suggest as a minimum length for the transition piece.

Bryan, the above method is what I had in mind. However I was probably also thinking of and mixing up L2L connections "as" this same method due to my ignorance of braid methodologies at the moment. I also like the idea of L2L for the ease of ability to have premade topshot ready to go and deploy without needing needles. I also understand that I dont need hollow braid as a transition line to do this now. This is why I asked initially was the serving method using hollow braid practical/realistic/effecient. I now must ponder when to use the two methods. Is serving more secure than L2L or visa versa?

SoCal, I look forward to fishing with you God willing some time soon hopefully and appreciate your offer to meet up one day. Hopefully I will finish up with what I call the hardware phase of my upgrades (drags, bearings, Kolekars, handles, etc) in the next month. Then move on to the software phase of upgrading which I refere to line (braid, backing, mono, flurocarbon). Im glad it wasnt this tricky 30 years ago when I first started fishing for I probably wouldnt have gotten into fishing. SoCal I will do as you suggest with the internet search with the initial direction that you have provided that I can multiply from/with.

So, right now Im kinda getting the lay of the land and feeling my way around. I can see already that some of the methods lend themselves better to trolling and others for bait and jig fishing. I will need to study more to see how I will apply this technology to my various applications/needs.

Please keep the comments coming, Im learning exponentially.

Thanx,

Leo

PS I also plan to copy the information given here into my notebook and use  as a guideline to spooling-up with braid. Thanks gentlemen.

[maxpowers]

Leo,

A serve is merely a way to maintain pressure on the hollow braid so that the Chinese finger trap will continue to work.  There are different ways to serve:

1.  overhand knot - easy o do and secure but leave a bulky knot
2.  pressure serve - compact design, prone to failure if done incorrectly, need a serve set up minimally
3. Sato crimp method - easy to do, not prone to failure, expensive to use
4. nail/nub method - easy, compact, low rate of failure, time consuming to do

The hollow sleeve between the solid and mono/flouro is probably the cleanest connection but you sacrificed the versatility of being able to change top shot on the fly because each time you have to cut off a portion of the sleeve, you have to reinsert the mono.  Larger diameter mono and hollow you could probably get away with not having to use a hollow needle but smaller diameter mono will be a pain to work on.  Another method is to have a premade leaders and in-line spliced the hollow braids.  Easy to do and the splice is 100%,  Downside is you need some space and nice lighting to work on.

Most common method is creating a loop in the hollow braid on both the mainline and the leader and just connect via loop to loop.

[Keta]

what would one suggest as a minimum length for the transition piece.

You could get by with 20' but you will have to replace it more often.

4. nail/nub method - easy, compact, low rate of failure, time consuming to do

A quick way is a 10 turn uni.

I splice Spectra to Spectra (in line splice) with my 80# and up topshots.



Bryan, a 4 or 5 turn surgeons loop is faster than a Bimini and just as strong, both will work.

[LTM]

Gents,

Specifically why whould one use the more expensive hollow braid as a base under their top shot of mono/floro?

Leo

[Keta]

Gents,

Specifically why whould one use the more expensive hollow braid as a base under their top shot of mono/floro?

Leo

Bad spots can be cut out and the line spliced back together and I like the way hollow lays and works , most of my reels are filled with 100% hollow.  The cost is considerably higher but I have 15 year old Spectra on my reels that I have only had to splice in new 100' sections on the end to use.  Getting my line at resale price helps too and my "retail" price for JB is about as low as you will find.

[SoCalAngler]

For me I use solid spectra on my reels that I use 50lb and less topshots. The knot I use to connect the two easily passes through my rod guides on reels that I have long toppers on while fighting fish. When I get to 60lb and over is where I start to use other connections. Is it the best to tie solid to my topshot? Maybe not but I have not lost fish and no extra tools are required.

[Keta]

Is it the best to tie solid to my topshot? Maybe not but I have not lost fish and no extra tools are required.

As long as it passes through your guides a knot is just as good as a L2L and far easier.