Penn 113H has no real drag...

[RUSTY OLD COLT]

Did anybody grind down the sleeve part #9 i  this reel ? It seems to me you are adding another spring washer and you get more drag . Do you have another sleeve that you can swap or check the length with ?

[Shark Hunter]

Well I checked the spool to see if it is spinning on the shaft. I did just as Bryan suggested and it appears not to be spinning. The marks did not change!  

I did as Sal suggested and tried to check the tension washer. Since I don't know if either are any good I put two tension washers back to back (located directly under the star) and it took the startup weight to 12 lbs.

We are still far away from 20 lbs so what do you men suggest?

Thank you, Bob

Sal (Alto Mare)
Send him a PM. I think you have exhausted all possibilities. Its time to bring in reinforcements.
I want to know what the problem is. Its not the spool slipping, its not the stack, it has to be something in assembly. Sal is your Man for Sure. He is a Senator Guru. Also the closest to you.

[hippie]

Rusty Old Colt, I know they make different lengths of spacer sleeves. When my drag is tightened down as far as I can get it (with my fingers) I still have about 1/16 to 3/32 of an inch showing outside the side plate. There is not much of a difference in length with or without the second washer (the washer is very thin). So my thinking is, I could actually get more drag but it would involve twisting down on the star with pliers for that 1/16 inch. I really should not have to use pliers and by doing so I could break something inside. I did look for a schematic that shows the spacer length but could not locate any. If someone has such a schematic could you please post it (showing the length).

Thank you all again, Bob

[hippie]

Keta, I checked and rechecked the washer configuration and made certain that the two eared washers were set in the grooves for them.

Thank you for your suggestion, Bob

[Keta]

Your problem has a lot of us curious, try to get one of the reels to one of us.

[hippie]

Keta, I sent a PM to Sal. Waiting to hear from him. There is only so much that can go wrong and the engineering on a Penn is simple but yet I can not figure it out. I must be overlooking something!

[Bryan Young]

Are the washers greased, dry or are they soaked with reel oil?  If greased, what type of grease?  When you look at the drag washers, are they carbon fiber HT-100s?  Are they shiny and smooth or you can clearly see the weave?  And if you can see the weave, when you feel it is it smooth or textured?

[Dominick]

Your problem has a lot of us curious, try to get one of the reels to one of us.

Especially me.  I'll even pay the shipping both ways.  Dominick

[OldSchool]

Your stack is incorrect. On a Penn 1 + 5 drag you have the smaller fibre washer under the gear and 5 metal and 5 fibre washers. You have 6 metal. Get rid of 1 x steel drag washer at the top. You should then have drag spring washer (8a) then spacing sleeve (9) then tension spring 8. The parts schematic you have referenced is incorrect. There is no reference to a 6th metal drag washer on any schematic in the entire 113h series.

[Bryan Young]

Your stack is incorrect. On a Penn 1 + 5 drag you have the smaller fibre washer under the gear and 5 metal and 5 fibre washers. You have 6 metal. Get rid of 1 x steel drag washer at the top. You should then have drag spring washer (8a) then spacing sleeve (9) then tension spring (. The parts schematic you have referenced is incorrect. There is no reference to a 6th metal drag washer on any schematic in the entire 113h series.

In some cases, there was an extra keyed washer on the top of the drag stack because some of the spacing tubes were cut a little short.  It may not be in the schematics, but it's a common way to take up extra space.

For 2 6/0 reels that I recently serviced, I added 2 additional keyed washers for this very purpose.

[wascallywabit]

I believe both Johntuttle and Oldscool are correct here. I ran into the same situation on a 113h tank I just completed recently. Found a NIB USA made 113 at a local shop, ordered up a tib frame, stainless gear sleeve, 5+1 stack, handle, and ss dogs. When I got it all together I was disappointed when I could barely pull 15 lbs. of drag with the star turned down all the way. After tearing down and reassembling the stack several times it occurred to me that I had two stainless washers together at the top. I swear that was the way it came new, so I just assembled it the same way. Put it back together with only the single washer on top and Bingo!.. 22lbs. of drag without even trying hard! Could probably get close to 30 if I cranked it down. I just don't see how two greased ss washers can work together properly unless they are somehow locked together.

[Ron Jones]

I believe your situation had 1 eared and 1 keyed washer on top of each other, which doesn't work. Stacking keyed washers on top of each other does lock them together and they just take up space like a spacer sleeve.
Ron

[Tightlines667]

The best way to configure/adjust your drag stack (in my humble opinion), is to pull the bridge assembly and assemble all parts including gear sleeve, under gear washer, main gear, all CF/Keyed/eared washers, spring washer(s), star, and handle and check for drag stack function and star travel on the threads.  If your drag stack is not being sufficiently compressed as the star begins to tighten you may be missing a Belleville, your sleeve might be too short, or you need another keyed washer in top of stack to increase the spacing.  Once you have your drag stack configured, and spacing set up correctly, you need to test fit it on the right sideplate to ensure you have adequate clearance between the stack and plate when the bridge screws have been tightened and the star is backed all the way back.  You will know if it binds here at all.  There are different Belleville, keyed washers, top hat washers, and gear sleeves (thickness/lengths) that can be used to fine tune your stack accordingly.  Hope this helps?

[Alto Mare]

The best way to configure/adjust your drag stack (in my humble opinion), is to pull the bridge assembly and assemble all parts including gear sleeve, under gear washer, main gear, all CF/Keyed/eared washers, spring washer(s), star, and handle and check for drag stack function and star travel on the threads.  If your drag stack is not being sufficiently compressed as the star begins to tighten you may be missing a Belleville, your sleeve might be too short, or you need another keyed washer in top of stack to increase the spacing.  Once you have your drag stack configured, and spacing set up correctly, you need to test fit it on the right sideplate to ensure you have adequate clearance between the stack and plate when the bridge screws have been tightened and the star is backed all the way back.  You will know if it binds here at all.  There are different Belleville, keyed washers, top hat washers, and gear sleeves (thickness/lengths) that can be used to fine tune your stack accordingly.  Hope this helps?

Tightlines, you just recapped what everyone else said

Hippie, send them my way and I'll look them over. Just let me know how far you want me to go with them, there are lots of options.
Check your email, Sal

[hippie]

Well I tore the reel apart. I am now confused more than ever!
Bryan, the fibre washers have a definite "tread" pattern to them and when feeling them you can feel the "tread".
Now, as I said I would, I was carefull to look for an "insert" (#15A). It is not there. So according to a Penn schematic there should be 3 metal washers against each other without the "insert". On another schematic it shows 2 metal washers against each other with an "insert" (#15A). Both schematics are for a 113H, red side plates and a half frame.


Here is the schematic which shows 3 metal washers against one another and NO "insert".
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/penn-113h-special-senator-reel-parts-c-186082_186083_186193.html


Here is the one showing 2 metal washers against each other and an "insert" (#15A).
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/113h_half.pdf

Please note that mine had 3 metal washers against each other and NO "insert" and at "startup" the drag was 7 lbs. So it makes NO difference if there are 3 or 2 metal washers. They act only as spacers. The spacer sleeve is not into the side plate prohibiting the star from tightening down more, but the drag is compressed to the max that doesn't allow the star to tighten down any more unless you would use big pliers and bust something inside.

At this point I know nothing and am about to mount the reels on my transom and use them to bring in dredges and chains or throw them away so they don't give me any more headaches!

Thank you all, Bob


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"